The Human Factor in Building High-Performing Teams - Bonnie Davis is RightOffTrack

Anya Smith:
Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of RightOffTrack. I'm your host Anya Smith, and today we have an exceptional individual to introduce to you. Get ready to embark on a journey into the world of innovation, human-centric workplaces, and personal growth. Joining us today is Bonnie Davis, a name synonymous with transformation and empowerment. Bonnie is a speaker, executive coach, cultural consultant, writer, and co-owner of HeWork. With a passion for reshaping the way we approach work and leadership, Bonnie dives head first into the realm of empathy, authenticity, and laughter while seamlessly intertwining them with productivity, profitability, and innovation. Imagine a workplace where people's best selves thrive, where teams work harmoniously, and where leaders foster growth. Bonnie has been instrumental in revitalizing cultures. and developing leaders at prominent companies like Apple, Facebook, and Lululemon. Her expertise extends from crafting more human workplaces, from crafting more human work spaces to owning leadership and management skills, nurturing powerful coaching and conversations, sorry, I'm gonna repeat that one more time. Her expertise extends from crafting more human workplaces to owning leadership and management skills, nurturing powerful coaching and conversations, and even sustaining healthy work-life wellness habits. Armed with over two decades of Fortune 500 corporate experience, Bonnie brings a wealth of wisdom to every endeavor. From speaking at conferences to writing for Forbes, her impact is undeniable. And let's not forget her deep involvement in volunteer work, proving her dedication to make a difference. Bonnie's educational journey includes a master in organizational psychology from Columbia University and a bachelor's in psychology in business administration. and Bachelor's in Psychology and Business Administration from American University. This has equipped her with the tools to transform workplaces from the ground up. She's certified by procedures institutions such as Coaches Training Institute, International Institute for Facilitation, and Voices360, showcasing her commitment to continuous growth. But Bonnie is more than just a power, sorry, but Bonnie is more than just a professional powerhouse. She's a driven New Yorker who has found solace and vibrant landscapes of Denver, Colorado, alongside her husband and teenage children. As she likes to say, everything's better when it happens outside, a testament to her zest for life. So if you're ready to uncover the secrets to crafting human-centric workplaces, embracing authenticity and fostering growth, you're in for a treat. We're about to delve deep into Bonnie Davis's incredible journey and learn how she's making the world a more human place, one organization at a time. Welcome to the show Bonnie I'm so excited to have you here.

Bonnie Davis:
Hi Anya, I'm so happy to be here.

Anya Smith:
And I wanna do a quick shout out to the changing workplace collective for getting us opportunity to meet. It's an organization, if you haven't heard of it, or a community of mindful and thoughtful business leaders and initiatives that come together to support one another. So I'm really grateful we got to meet through there.

Bonnie Davis:
I am too. One of my top two strengths is connector in the standout strengths profile.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
And it has just fed that for me being able to meet wonderful people like you and like in rapid fire somebody at one time. So I've been thrilled with that.

Anya Smith:
Oh, and I think this discussion is so timely right now. As somebody who was in the corporate world for so long and now kind of taking a step out of it and reflecting about the experience, it's a challenging time. Like so many changes are happening after the COVID pandemic. People are going to remote workplace setting and the culture kind of is shifting, especially as we go through the challenges like the layoffs. So could you maybe share a little bit of background, like... to what your experience has led you to this innovative field of workplace kind of cultural development and maybe what are some current trends that you're seeing that you're passionate dealing with right now.

Bonnie Davis:
Well, I'll start out and I'll keep it short but I just sent my son off to college. He's a freshman and so it's really brought me back to the thinking about my own start and being what was my major and how did I know what I wanted to do when I grew up. And so I always thought I wanted to be a business major but I never knew what I wanted to do with that. I had an image of wearing a power suit in a Manhattan office building which is funny because like the yoga pants in my... either my home or my backyard or my office in Denver is very far from the vision I had back then. But I did achieve the vision and it was fun at the time and it fed me at the time and yet I didn't know what I wanted to do with business. Then I started psychology classes. I loved psychology but I still had the business vision. And so then I discovered organizational psychology which is the combination of the two which just really fed me this idea of helping people be their best at work. So that is still all these years later what feeds me. But doing it in corporate America felt like I had to put on a face, put on a mask, everything

Anya Smith:
Thanks for watching!

Bonnie Davis:
from the business suit and the clothing that didn't quite feel right to the feeling like I couldn't fully speak up in meetings, feeling like I was the young one in the room, often the

Anya Smith:
Oh.

Bonnie Davis:
only female in the room. I played the game and I did well, but I just never felt like it was fully me. And

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

Bonnie Davis:
so 11 years ago, I had the opportunity to make my last employer into my first client as a consultant. On a personal note, my husband, he was an entrepreneur, his company was just a bought and so we can flip roles so that I became the entrepreneur. And

Anya Smith:
Wow.

Bonnie Davis:
I started doing this full time. And at the time my kids were pretty young, so it also fit for my lifestyle and the kind of mom I wanted to be. And in those 11 years, I have only found that the need for helping people be their best at work. on a team level, an individual level, and an organizational level, and has only gotten greater and greater. I love that there's more demand for this in the world, and particularly, I think COVID sped up the need for people to really rethink what it means to be in an office, what it means to be a high-performing team, what it means to have boundaries, what does it mean to be a leader who embraces wellness? So those are all things that I am excited about, and I love helping other people.

Anya Smith:
That's amazing. And do you mind if we dive into that little point you mentioned how you turned your employer to your first client? That's amazing. And you also mentioned that your husband was entrepreneur. So I'm curious, like when you decided to make a transition, what inspired you? Was it a combination of seeing kind of your husband do something? Was it also just the opportunity to make that transition? Can you share a little bit more what that looked like for you?

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah, it was a whole bunch of things. It's funny in life, sometimes things happen in the right time and place. And I think we need to be present and aware because sometimes we can be clueless to those signs. But I was working in a company. I was responsible for the employee engagement of 20,000 people. And I had this aha that I wasn't feeling very engaged. So I was lacking some authenticity in my role. It was also, they were doing a lot of budget cuts. And so I was just the old fashioned, do more with less.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
And. Within all of this, we were launching a leadership program. So that is, of the many things I love, helping leaders expand their capability is really, if you ask me, what's the number one thing,

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
it's probably in there and still through the lens of creating a human-centered workplace, but really leadership capability. And so I had just created a leadership program that we were trying to find an outside facilitator to lead. So I

Anya Smith:
Mm.

Bonnie Davis:
was doing these pilots and I felt so lit up. I felt like sitting at my desk and being drowned in email and PowerPoint. And then suddenly I was in front of groups and I was like really feeling alive in a way I

Anya Smith:
Huh.

Bonnie Davis:
hadn't in a few years. So. I remember it was a holiday weekend, it was President's weekend and my husband and I were out on a date and I, you know, babysitter and little kids were at home and I said to him, I'm really thinking about raising my hand and saying, I want to be the facilitator for this program because it's just giving me that sense of aliveness that I hadn't felt in a while and he said, well then go for it. And so went into

Anya Smith:
Aww.

Bonnie Davis:
work. I basically quit my job and I said, I'd like to become the facilitator. And I gave a pitch and they said, well, we hate to see you go, but it makes sense. That was a Monday, Tuesday, the next day, the CEO and his team met and they decided big budget cuts, no training, no travel until the next fiscal, which started October one. So literally 24 hours it came and went. And so I'm like devastated. Like, you know, I was high achieving. I always had a. great job. Who am I? I just quit this great job with no job. That was just not part of my identity. And it's a bigger story. But the next day I met somebody in my network who like immediately fed me a project with Microsoft through somebody in Faircon. So it just like all the pieces came together at once. And you asked about did my husband, his entrepreneurship? I think there was a sense of like, yes, it can work. But it was also a risk thing of like honestly, just not wanting to take that risk of us both being entrepreneurs at the same time.

Anya Smith:
Thank you for being so genuine about this experience. And I didn't know that it didn't work out in a good way. Isn't that amazing?

Bonnie Davis:
In a good way, yeah. Ironic, you know what? Sometimes we just need that motivator to give us the push and it was the push. And so I really, I believe in the things are meant to be, things happen for a reason in life. So I think

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
that was the push that got me to quit the really good corporate job and take on the risk and it certainly all worked out.

Anya Smith:
Well, I appreciate you inspiring me personally because that was me three months ago getting laid off and I was not that I intentionally made it happen, but I knew this could be happening. And so I was thinking about how do I make this an opportunity? And now a big part of me is immensely grateful for this opportunity and thinking this is the best thing that happened to me. And at the same time, I have my own moments of doubt. and tear like what is happening but I think that's part of the journey that's the real like it's not always like oh I have it all figured out and the universe is on my side sometimes like ah yes but yeah

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah, for some reason being in the car were my moments. Like I had more downtime to think and I would do the like, what am I doing? What am I doing? I just quit a real job. What am I doing? So yeah, that is fully normal that we second guess and then brush it off and regroup.

Anya Smith:
Yeah. And do you mind me diving now? He work. I hope I'm pronouncing it correctly.

Bonnie Davis:
Yes.

Anya Smith:
Let me know if I'm butchering that, but how did that come about? So from going from a project, which can serendipitously and in a serendipitous way came together, which is amazing. How did that, you know, one thing lead to you starting a business? And now where you are helping top companies in the world, facilitate these topics.

Bonnie Davis:
Well, I think I've always believed in the buddy system. So the only half marathon, I grew up very unathletic. The only half marathons

Anya Smith:
Me too.

Bonnie Davis:
I've run have been. training with friends, doing the race with friends. And so with that thinking of buddy system, about four years ago, I had a few friends that I had been doing projects with. So we each had our own businesses and

Anya Smith:
Awesome.

Bonnie Davis:
we decided, wouldn't it be more powerful if we went from a me to a we? So we decided to join forces and create Hewark. And it was really fun to create the name, by the way. We were very

Anya Smith:
Mmm.

Bonnie Davis:
fortunate. We had a friend who does professional marketing and branding in our own business. She sat down with us. sessions to really in a professional way brainstorm what's most meaningful. And we were kind of stuck. And suddenly the word human came up and we're all like,

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

Bonnie Davis:
that's it. Stop everything. And so then we put together, of course, different combinations and you have to look up what companies exist. So Hue work, the Hue is short for human. Inspiring humans at work is what we're all about

Anya Smith:
Right?

Bonnie Davis:
because we all had that similar experience. We were all successful in consulting firms, and we all three of us coincidentally had, four of us had background at Deloitte, not at the same time, not even in the same cities, but we had big consulting experience,

Anya Smith:
Right.

Bonnie Davis:
we had Fortune 500 experience, and we all felt that kind of robotic presence, like we had to show up in a certain robotic way to be successful. And so this idea of really becoming a human center and workplace and really knowing that it's possible to still be successful, to communicate. in ways that feel more conversational and less stuffy and less corporate, and to listen to people in deeper ways and to doing things like even not having the hierarchy of like... at companies where human to human, it doesn't matter your level, we're all gonna have open conversations. And some of it is the process and procedure stuff like the benefits that we have, but other things is quite simply the way we treat each other. That we call out bullying and harassment and bad behaviors. I can go on and on with all the things that we felt passionate about

Anya Smith:
I

Bonnie Davis:
that

Anya Smith:
love

Bonnie Davis:
really

Anya Smith:
it.

Bonnie Davis:
make up a human-centered workplace that. You know, we all had good experiences, so I'm not going to bash my employers and say

Anya Smith:
Right.

Bonnie Davis:
it wasn't there. Part of it was time and place. Like, this was late 90s, early 2000s. Like, I worked for great companies and they were just... It was the norm. It was more than norm.

Anya Smith:
Sorry, I lost you for a moment, but I think we're back. You were mentioning part of this 2000s.

Bonnie Davis:
was pretty, part of it was a sign of the times

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
in terms of just what was the norm in company cultures. So it was all positive experiences, truly, but it was also an aha that I wanted to help companies shift those tendencies. And luckily, a lot of it naturally has happened with time and with contemporary thinking and with COVID. But I think a lot of companies also want to get there and be more human centered and don't really know how. So we're happy to be the accelerator.

Anya Smith:
So I'm curious, why do companies see the value of being human centric? Or do you have to do some conviction and then maybe they see the value and then you actually lay out the process? Is there any kind of resistance that happens when you actually start to create this foundation? And what are some of the biggest common hurdles maybe you have to overcome to create this solid foundation for a human centric organization?

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah. Well, I am thinking of one client in particular where the executive team is just, I'll say more old fashioned. And it's a little bit like we don't have time for that. You know, we have to run a business and we don't have time. And some companies it's even like, oh, that HR stuff we don't really have time for. And so, yeah, so time becomes a factor in some cases. A lot of companies just don't really embrace learning and growth and things that are more on the employee development, leadership development, culture. Either they have a mindset of like, those things don't work, culture change can't really happen. So I think in concept, at its core, it's about having a purpose beyond profit.

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

Bonnie Davis:
And then treating people in a way that people are really at the center of that. So the old fashioned employees are our greatest asset. What company doesn't say that? But in reality, putting in any effort to make it happen when it takes time, money, effort, and it may digress from... sales and other core business functions, I think that's the resistance that we get sometimes.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
And that's okay, you know, some companies aren't ready yet. You can't always push change. Sometimes you need to bring it in smaller doses.

Anya Smith:
Absolutely. And what companies, how do you frame then the value add? If there is a resistance, like you mentioned, it may not be a point where every company is ready for it, but is there a pitch, not that it has to be salesy, but is there a kind of value proposition that you see, or maybe even a type of company that's maybe, is it seeing the advantage of a company adapting this maybe that relatively they become more innovative because they're doing something like this?

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah, well, in big letters on the front of our website, it says, when we know when humans are inspired high performance results. So

Anya Smith:
Right.

Bonnie Davis:
that's at its core. And, you know, the language that resonates with a lot of organizations these days is employee engagement. So at its core. employees who are engaged or working in a human-centered organization. And the data, and often we just turn to Gallup because it's such a recognized, credible institution for data. The data, the Gallup data on connecting employee engagement with results, with business results, customer satisfaction, productivity, profit. I mean, it's so clear. You know, you literally have these studies where you have two business units in the same organization, one of them with high engagement scores, one with low engagement scores, and you see the difference

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
in their business results. So

Anya Smith:
Right.

Bonnie Davis:
the data is there and it's pretty compelling and that's often what we turn to when we're having a harder time.

Anya Smith:
And you know, it's interesting a lot of the people who are here are entrepreneurs start their own business But I do think that entrepreneurship is not just inside or outside a corporate kind of element, right? There are plenty of entrepreneurs who entrepreneurs right there inside a company who are doing innovation So it's valuable to kind of embrace this mindset like no matter where you go and have this Passion and purpose like as whether you're an entrepreneur or an entrepreneur or a small business owner, like all of that helps. And I think that being able to show up authentically, wherever you are is gonna help you kind of find your superpower, find more energy in what you do and ultimately have a better result.

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah, for sure. We created an assessment called the Human Factor Assessment. It is available

Anya Smith:
Mmm.

Bonnie Davis:
for free on our website, hueworkteam.com.

Anya Smith:
Check it out.

Bonnie Davis:
Yes, free of charge. And so far, it's pretty low tech. It's essentially a PDF to print out. So we are working on getting it to be more dynamic, interactive. But for now, it's really mostly a conversation starter. So there is such power in sitting down. with a coach, because we do coaching, or with your team, and just answering these questions, having a conversation about essentially how human-centered is our workforce. And so that is intended. You can do that on an organization-wide level to look at your culture. You can do it on your team-wide level, or you can look at it just as an individual leader. So to your point, entrepreneurs, I think it's available for everyone to do an assessment on being human centered. And by the way, it could even be if you are a solopreneur, we'll put all the reneurs out there,

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
it even can be used how you show up as a human centered leader with your customers, with your partners. And it doesn't mean all the questions may not entirely apply if you're not managing a team, but I promise you that it will. give you some food for thought to think about being human centered if that's something that's important to you.

Anya Smith:
I love that. It's a great resource. I need to go check it out as my own, as my own little business endeavor. I have a small team that I'm now working with. So as it goes, it's never too early to start thinking about this foundation that you create. And that actually got me thinking. So your specialty is focusing on helping these large organizations become innovative, have this human-centric foundation. But if somebody is a startup or an entrepreneur and they're seeing like, oh, well, is it too early for me? Or maybe thinking how can I create that foundation besides taking this free assessment as a great starting point? Are there certain things that should really not lose sight of to make sure they're on track? And again, as they scale, especially, I think that's the hard part. When you scale, how do you still maintain that human focus? Like when your team gets beyond a handful, it goes harder and harder.

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah, well, I would say for starters, and this is a lot of the work I do with my coaching clients and also in workshops is getting clear on your brand. What is important to you and how do you want to show up with others? And many people, the concept of even the words human centered, it may not have been top of mind, but just hearing those words and wanting to show up human to human, being kind and being compassionate and having great listening skills, it's a great time. And to your question, no, it's never too early to check in and go, well, what's going well? What am I doing that is going well? One of my certifications is with Marcus Buckingham as a strengths-based coach. So I always say, look at the strengths first. What are you doing well? And as a human center leader or entrepreneur or partner, and what do I want to do differently? And so at the core of that is your brand, how are you showing up with people? Asking yourself honestly, what would other people say about me? Do they say that I'm always too busy and I never have time or that I slow down and I really listen and I ask the right questions? So take that honest look. If there's tough stuff, like that's okay. No judgment. Just take it as an opportunity to improve.

Anya Smith:
Thank you for sharing that. And another, if you don't mind me diving, I struggle with this area because I had a great experience with my former company. I'm very grateful for that. But I also can be honest and say towards the end of that experience, I was working remotely, which I am very grateful for because I got to have my kids and be on maternity leave and then come out and be with them. I got to go to school while working and being remote was such a key factor of that. But I also think it made it easier for me to end that career there. because I didn't feel as connected to the team. And I had a great team, but there's something very different when you're not there in person. And then obviously with the layoff, there was a lot of mental kind of health and struggle and stress. So do you mind if we talk about the issues that I see and you can add anything else around like burnout, mental health, and then like remote needs of a company that are really challenging. And I don't think any company I would see actually is doing a great job about it, but curious if you have any thoughts about like these pain points that companies are going through and where can... there'd be more innovation or humanness to improve that experience for employees and also for leaders, because they're struggling too.

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah. So I think if I got the essence of your question, Anya, it is around creating that human centered culture when people are hybrid or remote and don't necessarily feel naturally disconnected because they're not spending the time together in the office.

Anya Smith:
Yeah. Yes. And then if you have a moment to add also to the issues like burnout and then mental health that I also see kind of creeping up in large organizations, even the ones that are worldwide seen as prototypes of what you should be, but I see that's still an issue for those famous companies. How

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
do we think about those?

Bonnie Davis:
I think the first thing is to have open communication as a culture and to say, what is a really great high performing human centered culture look like when we're not together, when we're not seeing each other? How do we support each other? How do we communicate? How do we collaborate? Those

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
things don't happen accidentally. And I was on a hike a few weeks ago with friends and I was asked, oh, what are your best tips for being a great hybrid? remote and hybrid, what do you think we should do?"

Anya Smith:
Alright.

Bonnie Davis:
And I said, well, you tell me what does a really great hybrid culture look like to you? And he literally like stopped in his tracks on the hike, you know, because he wasn't expecting that because

Anya Smith:
Right.

Bonnie Davis:
he felt like I'm the expert, I have all the advice and, you know, I believe in the ask first tell second method. So the point of that is it's very specific and personal. Every team needs to define that for themselves. What does great look like? in terms of a hybrid or remote culture, what does great look like in terms of people feeling a strong sense of wellbeing and not getting burnt out. And so let's define it. And now let's talk about what's going well to embrace and keep doing. What are the gaps and what are the gaps as a team and what are the gaps for me individually? So for me individually, the gap can be like, I don't know how to shut off my phone at night and I am on my phone till all hours. And the fix can be. I'm gonna put my phone in the other room, and then the question is accountability. I'm gonna ask my children to hold me accountable and find me every time I pick up my phone or whatever. But

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
it's being really open and intentional with yourself and with the people around you to make it happen.

Anya Smith:
Yeah, I think it's a hard thing because all of us want to have that balance. But I know from my personal experience, when you're especially in a high performing culture and you see somebody who is putting in more time and you're thinking, well, I should be putting in more time. Or when you are compared for your review or performance, you're thinking about what are other people doing and how should I be measuring up to that performance? I should be doing more. And that's where I think there's a lot of burnout. And I see all the time, I think most of my friends I've known have had a burnout situation. through their career more than once. What are we doing wrong? We're all coming in smart individuals, we're coming to these cultures that are, having these trainings and whatnot. Do you have any personal thought about, what could we be doing differently? Or is there a solution or is it really just like the individuals kind of need to be more mindful around this and putting stronger barriers or, I'm just curious what you thought.

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah, well, we are products of our environment. So if you want to stop drinking, then you should no longer hang out with the buddies at the bar. And so similarly, if you

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
want better work boundaries, you need to either frankly, leave the company that doesn't respect that lifestyle or have tough conversations. I was at a company. I had this aha moment and this was a long time ago, but it was a very intense meeting culture company. So I basically was, I was in meetings all day long and I literally started my job at night, sat down, had dinner, put my kids to bed. They were pretty young and then got on email. And I noticed

Anya Smith:
Mm.

Bonnie Davis:
one night, it was like 10, 1030 at night and our team, our leadership team my inbox kept filling up, we were emailing each other. So it was like a question, and we'd reply to all. And literally, it was us, our own worst culprit. So we were a human resources team. This was not our internal clients. This was each

Anya Smith:
Yeah,

Bonnie Davis:
other.

Anya Smith:
right.

Bonnie Davis:
And at our next staff meeting, I said, you know, I noticed this thing. Why don't we have an agreement that after call at six o'clock at night, we do not email anymore. Whatever it is, it can wait until the morning. We are not doing

Anya Smith:
Right.

Bonnie Davis:
brain surgery, nobody is dying on the operating room table. Why don't we support each other? And it got totally shut down. And so I left not that long after. I, that just,

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
it was like an aha moment that that's not the kind of culture I want to be in. So

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
there was a choice there. I was courageous to bring it up, frankly, I think. And there was a choice in other people buying it. Now that was about 15, maybe 17 years ago. I honestly think that in 2023, it has gotten a lot better

Anya Smith:
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Davis:
that there's more people that are. leading into that choice. But ultimately, with my coaching clients, I'll say to people, they'll go, oh, I'm on vacation, but I'm working this week, ha, ha. And I say, well, tell me about what your team is, the messages your team has about what does it mean to refuel and reenergize and take time off if you're working on vacation. So if you're in a leadership role, it's also important to think it's not just about you, but you

Anya Smith:
Right.

Bonnie Davis:
are sending messages to everybody else.

Anya Smith:
That is so valid. And even I think if there's best intention, like, oh, I'm just helping out my team, it does set a role model, because we look up to our leaders, we want to be like them. We imagine if we grow in this company, we're gonna be like that person that gives us perspective,

Bonnie Davis:
we're

Anya Smith:
right?

Bonnie Davis:
sending a message to be successful like me, you should do what I'm doing. And that's, and I'll have to say, no, that's not the message. I'm like, well, like it or not, that's the message that they're getting.

Anya Smith:
Can I ask you again, is it possible then to work a sane 40 hour week and not, you know, not be left behind? I think we do this because of FOMO. We don't want to be left. We don't want to be that one person we think who is not committing to this. And like maybe it's us lacking then when we're not part of what everybody else seemingly is doing. Or is that just like our mental limitation?

Bonnie Davis:
A few years ago, I learned the term Jomo and it was like life changing, joy of missing out, not fear of missing out. Really it, that is a mindset shift to realize, you know what, I don't need to be in those like lucky me, I don't have to sit in all those extra meetings.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
That is a joy. And so I think during COVID a lot of us realize like, oh, I don't have to go to those like obligatory social events that I didn't want to go to anyway. There was joy in sitting home in my PJs and not going to that stuff. But I think also I do a lot of work. A lot of my coaching clients are working on boundaries and time management. And I think energy management is even more important because we don't have the same energy all day long. And

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
some of the methods that we talk about are 50 minute meetings instead of one hour meetings so that you're building in some break time. And frankly, it teaches you, it almost forces you to be a little bit more efficient with the 50 minutes to get it done. One of my favorite tricks is you don't come to a meeting with an agenda, you come with a list of questions to answer because questions are probably in the problem solving. So you just it's a better use of time. And then my last trick up my sleeve that I help my guys with is the 3Ds. How can you dump it, delegate it, or do it differently?

Anya Smith:
it.

Bonnie Davis:
Like I'll give you an example, do it differently. I have a committee, I'm helping a client with a leadership summit and I'm working with a committee, a planning committee and I usually would have put together the best PowerPoint deck and worked it and overworked it. You know what, instead I wrote a few ideas down on a Word document and I didn't send it out of here, I just shared screen and it was, we covered the points, it was there, I was prepared. They knew what the plan was, I didn't have a glossy shiny PowerPoint and it probably saved me three hours. So. To

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
do it differently, that's where we tend to hire achievers like us, like most of your listeners. Not everything needs to be an A+. Where can you do things at a B or a B+, and frankly, nobody knows the difference. It's not game changing, it's not changing your promotability, but you're getting some of your sanity back and your time back and you're avoiding burnout.

Anya Smith:
That's very smart. Ultimately, we want to do our best, but we have to consider our energy is also an investment. We only have so much energy for everything we do. And so there's a trade-off between, again, how much you put into a task and how much you get out of it. And so it's very important

Bonnie Davis:
Trade

Anya Smith:
to that

Bonnie Davis:
off

Anya Smith:
way.

Bonnie Davis:
is the right word. One of my favorite coaching questions is, what's the highest and best use of my time right now?

Anya Smith:
Mmm.

Bonnie Davis:
And often the highest and best use of my time right now is not overdoing it on the pitch perfect parable,

Anya Smith:
All

Bonnie Davis:
but

Anya Smith:
right.

Bonnie Davis:
it's having a meaningful conversation with somebody. It's taking a walk to refresh my energy. There's all kinds of things that are the highest and best use of my time right now.

Anya Smith:
Love it. And one thing, it's maybe not a great word, but there are probably trends that are happening in the innovative companies around this human-oriented space. Is there any trends that we did not cover around maybe this remote work? We already mentioned some issues and maybe there's trends around revolving, but are there trends that we did not cover that you want to spotlight that you're passionate about?

Bonnie Davis:
Oh, I love that question. Trends that we did not cover. I don't know if this is a trend, but I would point out the being intentional about the the connectivity human to human. This gets to what you talked about before, of leaving a company and it was easier when you hadn't been in the office. You know, it takes effort. When we've lost the water cooler chit chat and the writing in the elevator and the bumping into somebody in the restroom. So it is the building it in with warm up questions. I mean, I have a whole bunch of warm up questions to start out team meetings. It doesn't have to be, you know, if you're an animal, what would you be? But just questions to get to know each other. It doesn't have to be every meeting, but it's sprinkling them in. I'm really a big fan of like at least once a quarter, making sure you're getting together. so that you're not 100% hybrid and never spending time together and like sitting down and having meals and meeting face to face. So really the idea of building in the intentionality of the time. I started hearing during COVID this word transactional. My clients were saying my work relationships feel transactional and I'm looking for more meaning and we have to work on that. You know, on a Monday morning, what do we say? Hi, Anya. Anya, how was your weekend? And most people go, it's great.

Anya Smith:
Bye!

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah, fine. It's a robotic, non-thinking answer. But if instead I asked you, what was one great thing you did this weekend, or what was the best part of your weekend? It's just a little twist on the same age old question, but I'm looking for meaning. I am actually compelling you to be thoughtful about your response. And now we're probably going to find things in common. You may say, oh, I was at my kid's soccer game. Oh, my kids play soccer. You know, it helps us find things in common. So just taking, and by the way, people say, I don't have time. It could take you five minutes to feel like

Anya Smith:
Right.

Bonnie Davis:
you are building more meaning and connection with people. It doesn't have to be time consuming.

Anya Smith:
I completely agree. I think the connections I have that are deepest with my former coworkers are the ones that didn't happen in the meeting, but were just side conversations that we had about each other's life. And that gave us those opportunities to connect and be more strongly tied to each other, even after we left the corporate world. And to add to that one thing that was challenging and then when the layoffs were looming and all those logical, we always had this... suppose that we're gonna have an offsite for the team and then it got postponed. And I think it happened like three or four times to where you pretty much stopped even trying to book your offsite because you were not feeling confident. It was like, oh, this is gonna be so great the first time. When it happens four times around, it's not great.

Bonnie Davis:
Not meant to be, yeah. I also love the walk and talk. So throw on the ear pods or the headphones and go for a walk. It is amazing when, to your point about your most meaningful moments with people probably not in the conference room, you know, you think about when you're in the car with people, when it's funny because we all hear about eye contact and how important it is, and yet. when you are in a car and you're not looking at somebody, that you're just more, you can more be thoughtful and really be more about you and really listen more deeply. And so the walk and talk I think really helps to build those connections in a remote world. as well. I am a big fan. Double win. We get the wellness, the movement, the connection, the depth away from our desk. It doesn't mean it's all the time. It could be like half of your meeting. You need to sit and show slides and take notes and then pick up and go.

Anya Smith:
It was interesting about the walking topic. People might think of us only in person, but I had a treadmill. I have a little under desk treadmill and I had a meeting one time with just a coworker on something else and she was on her treadmill. And so we were both walking and talking,

Bonnie Davis:
Love it.

Anya Smith:
which is kind of fun. One thing I also do as a pro tip is I turn off myself view when possible in meetings because that takes me away from looking at myself. I don't know if it's just me and me being conceited, but it's my eye goes to that and I'm not focused then as much on the other person.

Bonnie Davis:
I do the same. It's not natural. We don't spend the day looking at ourselves. It is not natural.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
So why do it? I hear you.

Anya Smith:
So if it's easy, quick tip, turn off the self view and that way you can be more focused on what the other person saying. Okay, I have two more things again, controversial. I don't know, just maybe that's my deep passion, what's on my mind. But one thing I found coming out of the corporate culture is that I was really limiting myself. I

Bonnie Davis:
Mm-hmm.

Anya Smith:
think when I was in there, I was thinking about, well, how do I compare it to the next level? How do I compare to my manager? It made me honestly question, do I need to change who I am? to be part of it. And here I am in this very amazing company. It's very innovative that says like, show up as your best self. And not that I felt like I can't be Anya, but I definitely felt like to be a manager, probably I need to tone myself down. Probably I need to speak slower, be more confident, all of those things that didn't feel like I should focus on Anya and those strengths, but have to change myself to succeed here long-term. Do you have any? And then I came out of the corporate world and realized like my limits were so. there I formed that environment and I got out and I was realizing, well, there's a whole world out there.

Bonnie Davis:
Mm-hmm.

Anya Smith:
You don't have to really change yourself. So is there something we could do while we're still in corporate to kind of not limit ourselves and kind of have this reflection that we are bigger and more capable and really own our strengths? You know, we do the test, but then like we still feel like all around us, I should be something different, although I have these strengths.

Bonnie Davis:
Well, I think it comes back to getting clear on your brand. If you're not clear on what's important to you, that's what I realized when I left corporate is I was so busy trying to fit in and look the part and wear the clothes

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
and that I lost sight of like what's important to me. Nobody ever asks. And I've never thought to slow down and ask myself. So. To be clear about, and one thing I like to do is an exercise on legacy. So imagine we're at your retirement party and people

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
are toasting you to your great career and the impact that you've had.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
What do you want them to be saying? How do you want them to be celebrating you? And then what am I doing today to live that? Because... The way I was showing up more robotically, the way I was expected to is not the way I wanted to be toasted. And then it takes courage to make some changes. When I look back, I was the one that got in my way. Nobody said

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
to me, you can't show up in a different way, Bonnie. I just felt like that self-imposed pressure. I think it came from... being the oldest in my family and like the perfect child

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
syndrome and being the perfect, you know, a high performing student in school and getting my teachers praise. It's like I was never the rebel. And so

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
I just kind of fit that mold throughout. But thinking about how do you want to be remembered at the end of your career? And then what am I doing today to honor that or that I want to change is a good exercise to get started.

Anya Smith:
that. And I know I didn't put this in the prep notes, but just came up. One thing I also saw is oftentimes we get a little stagnant in our professional development, like we are in this role. And we don't necessarily see us changing tracks, you know, career paths, like we're like, what do you want to be when you grow up? It's like, that's it. That's the profession. I am that person. But I think there's something really beautiful to stop also limiting yourself saying, Oh, I can't go into a different profession. I can't learn a new specialty like I think that change is possible, but we don't often embrace that or feel like maybe it's too late for us. Like that's how I felt when I decided I want to get out of recruiting and I knew I could do something, but I wasn't sure if I could go into tech. Like maybe it's too late for me. I wasn't going to go get my bachelor's again on that. Do you have any thoughts on like how should people continue learning and growing and to not make themselves feel stuck? Because that's what I also see people quietly like quitting or just not showing up because they feel stuck in what they do and they don't know. If they've been doing it for 10, 15 years, what else can they be doing then?

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah. Well, you just spark a thought on an article I read a few years ago called something like Learning How to Learn of Today's Superpower. So I

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
talk in there about a whole bunch of tips and it's things like just being curious and picking up the random magazine in a waiting room in a doctor's office and reading an article that you wouldn't have otherwise read instead of just like pulling up your phone and mindlessly scrolling and

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
asking other people, what are your favorite podcasts? What are your favorite books? So... We have like a wealth of smart, curious people around us. We just have to learn from them, ask more questions. I think to your point, so that's more of the learning part of it. The piece about making that leap to something different like you did, what comes to mind for me is figuring out your transferable skills. Like even if you are a stay at home mom and you want to start into the workforce, you've time management and budgeting and dealing with conflict and there's all kinds of wonderful transferable skills that you have learned that you can apply to the workplace. So we all have those. We've managed projects. We've dealt with, we've solved problems. And get really clear on what those are so that you can present yourself through the lens out of you, the lens of I haven't done this. It's through the lens of I have these skills.

Anya Smith:
Okay, two last things and I will wrap it up here. One thing I wanted to ask, you mentioned this beautiful example of you having people that you knew who were very professional, had similar experience, and then you came together and formed this amazing company. So can we talk a little bit about the power of community and the network?

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
Whether it's within corporate or outside of corporate, how do you build a network that's serving you? or how should we be thinking about that? Because oftentimes we just join a company and then like we forget about everything outside of it until

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
occasionally we need it.

Bonnie Davis:
One of my number one tips that I share with, I have a lot of clients who are engineers in tech companies and they know they need to internally network and externally network and they're feeling a little stuck. It's a really tactical way to do it, but set a goal for yourself. I'm going to, something practical, two coffees a month, one Zoom meeting a month. So before you know it, you're like, oh, in a year and one a month, that seems reasonable. Great. I've met with 12 people. And then the next thing is how do you nurture that relationship? Because it could be one and done, but take some notes. Like what are the three things that this person's most interested in? What would be my giveaway afterwards? So for me, I have two giveaways. One is the human factor assessment. The other is standout is this strengths-based assessment. from Marcus Buckingham, it is now free. It used to be you had to buy the book and get the coat, now it's free. So I can send you the link to that. Maybe you don't have that. Maybe you have your favorite article on a certain topic that you'll send them. Think about when we were kids, you got the goody bag at the end of a birthday party. So what is it that you can use to keep in touch with people? Some people, if you have your own business, you may have a newsletter, not everyone wants to get those, or even just write down their birthdays, send them out on their birthday. And then of course, LinkedIn is not for everybody. You and I have been really, we've had a nice connection there, but personally, I think it's a great way. And then I don't know if a little LinkedIn tip to ring somebody's bell so that people's posts come up in your feed. Those people that you really want to keep in touch with. ring the bell so that you can immediately see their posts and respond. So those are

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Bonnie Davis:
some of the tips that come to mind for people that it doesn't come as naturally to.

Anya Smith:
And who should be starting networking? Is it everybody at every career level or is it really better at one point in career or another?

Bonnie Davis:
My 14 year old daughter has a friend who she met in camp, she's four years older, and this older teenager just left for college. And what my daughter and her friend Hannah have in common is they both love to dog sit and they both like to babysit. Well, now that

Anya Smith:
Aww.

Bonnie Davis:
the older one has gone off to college, my daughter has gotten all these referrals. to dog sit and baby sit. And so I told her, I'm like, honey, that's networking.

Anya Smith:
Wow.

Bonnie Davis:
It's never too early. And my son who just started college, every I tell him, you know, he meets one of my friends, his friend's parents, add them on LinkedIn. So these are lifelong relationships. The earlier the better. Can't hurt.

Anya Smith:
I love that. Your kids are so well prepared. I need to do them.

Bonnie Davis:
I'm sorry.

Anya Smith:
Mine's one, four, and ten. So maybe a little bit early for LinkedIn, but soon enough, as soon as I can type.

Bonnie Davis:
Soon enough, yes.

Anya Smith:
That is amazing. And then, sorry, for networking, one thing I wanted to add for myself again, I'm a little bit new to actually using networking like in a different way than when I was a recruiter, right? That was a very different purpose where I was looking for candidates or even when I was in analytics. But now I really see the power of it. And to your point, you can engage it without LinkedIn, that doesn't matter. But I used to think it's a little salesy, I need to get something out of it. And now I see like, well, Let me just learn about your story. If there's something I can learn from that person, right? And I don't ask them for anything, maybe it's advice or help like considering a topic and an exchange, maybe it's something as simple as helping, you know, comment on their posts or help giving them honest feedback or help thinking about what connections could be relevant to them in the future because that, you know, you could do that. It doesn't have to be something that you have to be super senior to add support to another person. It could just be really the human connection, the feedback, the authenticity and future prospects. And for me professionally, even at Meta, the way I changed professions into business analytics was because I was having networking calls with people saying, Hey, I want to explore this new opportunity inside of recruiting. Here are the skills I'm doing. Here's the people who are getting the same degrees or had the same degree experience that I was getting. And they gave me advice. And that's how, like when a role got opened up that I was excited about, I applied for it and the hiring manager already knew about me. because she got a referral like, oh, that the audio person actually would give it and it took like over probably a year and a half, two years for that to culminate. But it was so worth it because I was just naturally curious and trying to explore options and make it happen.

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah, and it came down to your brand. You were known a certain way and it was a brand that was desirable. And staying on people's radar is really, really important. And as you said, we can always offer when people say like, oh, I have to network with these senior people and I feel bad. I say, well, what do you have to offer to them? I said, there are three levels above. Do you think that there's value for them to understand what's going on in your world, what you're seeing with your customers? Oh, yeah, I guess there is value in them seeing that. So, yeah, we human to human, we can always add value. It's not about level.

Anya Smith:
Yeah. And I think when you embrace that, it might be challenging at first. Like Nicholas, I tell him like I was intimidated at first to reach out to him because he's been at Google for longer than I have been on Facebook. And I didn't know him. I was like, oh, he's this level. Can I reach out and doing this more? I just get reminded that humans are humans. Ultimately, treat people like they are humans and not their title level. Like I think it's natural to have some intimidation. But for the most part, people will resonate feel a lot deeper. and be more authentic if you are authentic of them too.

Bonnie Davis:
And the thing with level, nobody was born into it. So most people like they

Anya Smith:
Or

Bonnie Davis:
get

Anya Smith:
we'll

Bonnie Davis:
it.

Anya Smith:
keep it when they go like nobody's gonna be a level 99 when they go

Bonnie Davis:
Well said, well said. So yeah, they probably remember when they were building their career as well.

Anya Smith:
Yeah. Okay. To wrap up on a positive note, I want to ask, what are some things that you're really excited about at your work and like what's on your radar right now? Any projects, any big endeavors, anything you want to share with the audience so they can work with you or check out those future prospects?

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah, well, I mentioned that we want to take the assessment and make it more digital and interactive and always looking to, if anybody wants to speak, or always looking for speaking opportunities to get the one to many message out there about how do you be a human centered workplace. We have a workshop that just helps you assess. I mentioned before it's all about the conversation. So it's just getting a better understanding of what is that, but not through lecture format, through assessing what am I doing well and what can I do differently? is that sense of building community that you mentioned? And then I will mention a pet project. You mentioned in my intro, the volunteer work. And

Anya Smith:
Yes,

Bonnie Davis:
so

Anya Smith:
yes.

Bonnie Davis:
I'll keep this short, but in June I had a milestone birthday and I created a project that I called 50 for 50,

Anya Smith:
Mm-hmm.

Bonnie Davis:
whereas you can guess how old I was or I still am. And so I did 50 volunteer projects within a year with as many friends and family as possible

Anya Smith:
Wow.

Bonnie Davis:
through the year. For 40, I did 40 for 40 where I did as many organized races, like 5Ks, 10Ks, a few half marathons with as many friends and family as possible. And I've been trying to write about the experience, write an article, maybe a book at some point about the learnings from 50 for 50. So that's just like, it's been simmering in my head and I just need to sit down and get clear because it was a really, I don't know if I'd say life-changing, but it was a very meaningful experience. And so I'd love to document and get the word out and encourage other people to get out there and do more volunteer work.

Anya Smith:
Bonnie you're amazing!

Bonnie Davis:
Well, thank you.

Anya Smith:
Somebody... somebody

Bonnie Davis:
So

Anya Smith:
tell...

Bonnie Davis:
are

Anya Smith:
I... please...

Bonnie Davis:
you. I really admire your courage to do what you're doing and how quickly you've just put your foot on the accelerator and like you've wasted no time. So it's been really

Anya Smith:
Yes.

Bonnie Davis:
fun to watch how you've done that really with meaning and with intention and with success. So congratulations to you.

Anya Smith:
Thank you. It is my purpose. I'm not perfect at it, but it does bring me a lot of life

Bonnie Davis:
You're

Anya Smith:
and

Bonnie Davis:
human.

Anya Smith:
these conversations inspire me. And I learned so much. And thank you for sharing your learnings and thank you for sharing just the depth of experience you can have. Giving back, volunteering, inspiring your kids to be on LinkedIn, helping organizations become more human-centric and also building your own community around that. All of that is happening because of your vision.

Bonnie Davis:
Thank you. Thank you. It's been fun. That's the most important part life is short. We need to have fun

Anya Smith:
Yeah, absolutely. And we're gonna wrap up with three short bit questions. Before we do that, where should people find you? I know I'll have your LinkedIn linked here and then should we have your webpage?

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah, sure. Hugh work team, all one

Anya Smith:
Perfect.

Bonnie Davis:
word. So company Hugh work and then the word team all in there. Hughworkteam.com. We have our publications on there. We have a contact us form on there. But also I am a total LinkedIn geek. So it's Bonnie Davis 01 as the ending on the LinkedIn link is

Anya Smith:
Perfect.

Bonnie Davis:
where I can be found. And if you're in

Anya Smith:
Check

Bonnie Davis:
Denver,

Anya Smith:
out.

Bonnie Davis:
let me know. I love virtual stuff, but I also like the real thing. Have

Anya Smith:
I need to

Bonnie Davis:
it

Anya Smith:
come

Bonnie Davis:
together

Anya Smith:
visit.

Bonnie Davis:
for a real coffee if anybody's in Denver.

Anya Smith:
That sounds amazing. Whenever I come, I definitely will reach out. I think Nicholas is there too. I think there's a bunch of amazing people

Bonnie Davis:
There's

Anya Smith:
that

Bonnie Davis:
a

Anya Smith:
are

Bonnie Davis:
bunch

Anya Smith:
in Denver.

Bonnie Davis:
of us, yeah.

Anya Smith:
Okay, when you're ready, we have three short bit questions. It can be, first thing that comes to mind, don't have to think too much about it, so just let me know and I'll get started. Okay, first

Bonnie Davis:
Yeah. Okay,

Anya Smith:
one. Okay,

Bonnie Davis:
Anya, let me have it. I'm ready.

Anya Smith:
let's do it. I was thinking about your travel and being outdoors. So first one, top destination on your bucket list.

Bonnie Davis:
Japan.

Anya Smith:
Ooh, I love it. Okay, one word that defines your leadership style. Or a couple.

Bonnie Davis:
curious.

Anya Smith:
Okay, last but not least, in the positive context, going off track is.

Bonnie Davis:
Balance.

Anya Smith:
Oh, beautiful. Avani, this was so much fun for me. I learned something. I was trying to really share what was on my heart and the challenges I faced in the corporate world and you handle it so gracefully. So to our audience, I hope this gives you inspiration and hope wherever you are, whether you are in the corporate world, whether you are starting something new, whether you're balancing those two, that there are so many paths you can embrace while being human-centric all throughout.

Bonnie Davis:
Even taking the time in the grocery store to somebody, how are you, engage in a slightly more meaningful conversation with our friends and family, take a pause, stop multitasking, have a more presence conversation. We can be more human-centered all the time, not just at work.

Anya Smith:
Yeah, because we're humans all the time.

Bonnie Davis:
There we go.

Anya Smith:
Even when we are at work.

Bonnie Davis:
And we live our lives like transactional in a rush. So slow down a little bit and be present. That is what I'm always working on. Just because I preach it doesn't mean I excel at it. But I love doing this work because it helps feed what's important to me and also helps other people do the same.

Anya Smith:
I can feel that. I can feel your passion for this, like your energy and like just how much time you've thought about this topic and then it brings you life. And to all of our audience, share with us what stood out to you, which questions, like which areas resonate. If you share this with a friend who may be struggling in certain areas or wants inspiration or is thinking about how to build up this area in their organization so that can help them along the way. And to everyone listening, thank you so much for coming off track with us. We look forward to having you join us next time. And thank you so much, Bonnie.

Bonnie Davis:
Thank you, Anya, this was so fun.

Anya Smith:
So fun. Until next time.

Bonnie Davis:
Okay, thanks, bye.