Forging a Path in Writing, Comedy, and Native Voice Advocacy - Joey Clift is RightOffTrack

Anya Smith:
Hello everyone, welcome to another captivating episode of RightOffTrack, the podcast where we unravel the remarkable journeys of individuals who have dared to embrace unconventional paths to pursue their purpose and create their unique success journey. In today's spotlight, we're thrilled to introduce you to a true trailblazer, Joey Cliff, a comedian and TV writer who's igniting creativity from vibrant city of Los Angeles. Joey's journey is a testament to the power of following your passions, even when the path ahead seems uncharted. Back in the day, Joey set out on a unique voyage aiming to be a local TV weather person. Why? Because during high school, the absence of Native American comedians on television led him to believe he couldn't pursue a career in comedy. But Joey's story takes an inspiration turn, but Joey's story takes an inspiring turn as he discovered that such limitations were merely illusions. Over the past few years, Joey's creative fire has burned brightly across various platforms. From writing for renowned series like Spirit Rangers on Netflix and Molly of Denali for PBS, to leaving his mark at Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, and Comedy Central, his journey has been nothing short of exceptional. Joey's award-winning animated short film, Telling People You're Native American When You're Not Native American, is like telling a bear you're a bear when you're not a bear. Garnered accolades on a grand scale. The film's triumphs spanned a successful festival run, a distinguished screening at the Smithsonian Museum, and millions of views across social media. Joey's creativity knows no bounds, as evident by his digital series, Going Native, which has recently distributed by Comedy Central. So overall, if you're seeking inspiration, a reminder to challenge limits, and a glimpse into the world of creative writing, this episode is your golden ticket. Remember, if Joey can do it, why not you? And without further ado, right, welcome to Write Off Track Joey.

Joey Clift:
Yeah, thanks for having me. Yeah, I gotta say I'm sorry my short film title is so long When I came up with it, I didn't think that like people would have to say it out loud And now I feel bad every time it's

Anya Smith:
Why? Why do you feel that? I think it's so fun. It gets

Joey Clift:
Oh,

Anya Smith:
to the point.

Joey Clift:
thanks. Oh, thanks. Well, I guess it's just like, I feel like most short film titles are like one, it's like illusion or like high school drama or whatever. And it's like, mine is just like telling people you're Native American when you're not native to Zalag, telling a bear you're a bear when you're not a bear. And it's like, it's just like such a mouthful. It's even like, it was funny when it was going through its festival run, when like, when a short film block of films that are screening as a part of like one film block are put together. they'll like basically they'll name all of the films usually in order on the poster. So it's like it'll be a bunch of films with like three word titles and then mine will take up like two full lines. And then it's like immediately after that it's a film called like cop terror or something. You know.

Anya Smith:
Which I love because even there you're challenging convention, right?

Joey Clift:
Yeah,

Anya Smith:
Even

Joey Clift:
yeah,

Anya Smith:
there

Joey Clift:
yeah.

Anya Smith:
there's like a media visual reaction to how different it is. And just for a little bit more context, last time I saw you was in Prague when you were visiting and we knew each other just opportunistically through Chris. He went to Western Washington and I went there. So we had common a friend. Then somehow when I was in Prague, he visited and now I've gotten to follow your career through all of this and through all the things you've done. So really. inspired but also excited to share with others kind of like what the real life looks like because here we're talking about all these accolades and I know this weekend your short series is also showing up in Smithsonian right?

Joey Clift:
Yep, yep. This coming weekend, my Comedy Central digital series, Gone Native, we've got a few episodes screening as a thing called the Native Cinema Showcase for a screening put together by the National Museum of the American Indian by the Smithsonian in Santa Fe. And I'm really excited about it. And I feel I think it's funny. It's like it's of course a big honor to have something screened at the Smithsonian. But it's also funny that like, it's sort of like anytime a Native person does comedy, they're like, oh, we're gonna put that in a museum, you know.

Anya Smith:
That is funny, but also kind of a very serious topic. And I just want to mention that we're shooting this episode on August 15th. So if this premieres a little bit later still, can people check out your work after?

Joey Clift:
Oh,

Anya Smith:
Cool.

Joey Clift:
yeah, yeah. Yeah, you can, um, the, uh, so their, their screening is a part of event this weekend, but, uh, if you're not in Santa Fe or you're catching this a little bit after the fact, you can watch all the episodes of the digital series at gone native.tv. It's a super easy place to check out all five shorts.

Anya Smith:
I love it. I love it. And so earlier I was laughing, but this is a serious matter. So one thing introduction that we mentioned is like, you had a goal about being out on TV because you didn't see representation of yourself. And I'm sure you talk about this a lot because it's near and dear to, but would you mind sharing like, what was it like going out without having that representation and why you decided it's important to kind of seek out a path towards representation?

Joey Clift:
Yeah, so I guess that I'm somebody that I'm an enrolled member of the Cowlitz Indian tribe based on Southern Washington state and then I grew up on the Tulalip reservation, which is kind of around Marysville, Washington. And, you know, growing up, like I really loved comedy shows like you know, The Simpsons Family Guy, Conan O'Brien and all that stuff. And like, it was so clear that like comedy is the thing that brought me joy. I was always that kid that like, you know, crack jokes in the back of the class. I remember In high school, there was one semester where I just like talked and made and said jokes so often that one of my teachers made me move desks seven times in one semester, with the final time being her making me move my desk into the corner with my desk facing the wall. And so you know it's clear like comedy and making people laugh. or pursuing comedy would be like, you know, a natural career thing to pursue. But for me, because I didn't really see any people like, like me, I didn't really see any native American comedians on TV at the time. I just didn't think that was like an option for me. I just

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

Joey Clift:
like, didn't, it didn't really like, I loved comedians and comedy TV shows, but I just like, you know, I didn't have like a Spielberg as an uncle or something like that or like anybody in my life that worked in the entertainment industry. Nobody that I could really point to and say like, oh, they've got a similar upbringing to me who was like a big time TV writer or comedian or anything like that. So basically I think my comedy, because I couldn't necessarily focus it on things like standup, it was focused on what felt like an attainable way to get paid to make people laugh for me, which ended up being to be like a small market TV weather guy, those guys that report the weather and have fun personalities on your local news. And

Anya Smith:
I love

Joey Clift:
so

Anya Smith:
that.

Joey Clift:
like I went to Washington State University for that, which is a, I got a really great communication school. And, you know, really like pursued this, like with the idea of like, this is what I'm gonna do with my life. I'm gonna report the weather in like post-Faust, Idaho. I'll like host a lot of local talent shows or something like that. I'll do autograph signings in front of car dealerships, you know, or whatever.

Anya Smith:
Whoa.

Joey Clift:
And, you know, just be like a small town celebrity. And then while I was doing this, I did a lot of, you know, like things like standup. college TV, college radio, and hosting events around Washington State University with the idea that all this on camera and on stage experience was going to help me in my future job reporting the weather in a small town. And fortunately, while I was doing this, a college TV show that I wrote, produced, and co-starred in ended up winning a big National College Comedy Award. And I remember holding this trophy and thinking, wow, this is going to look so cool on my news desk. And all my professors pulled me aside and said, hey. You know, it's like you could work in news for sure, but like it's clear comedy is like maybe a higher growth ceiling for you. Like you could probably go farther as a comedian than it's like a weather guy who's trying to crack jokes on the air. And this was about 13 years ago. So I, you know, moved to LA and really just dove in with both feet. And you know, it's so yeah, it was, I think it was, it was definitely a challenge even to realize that like, This is a career that I even could do. And it wasn't even until I was like in my mid 20s, graduating college that like, even just the light bulb that I could do this professionally hit.

Anya Smith:
I appreciate you sharing that and I'm curious, have things changed in terms of representation and are you finding that with the work that you're doing and also being that role model, like the other people coming to you being like, hey, thank you for helping me see somebody like me in this role and that gives me opportunity to see myself there.

Joey Clift:
Oh yeah, it's wild. It's like, it's something that I often think about where, you know, even 2010 when I moved to Los Angeles, there were not a ton of native comedians really getting opportunities in mainstream spaces. And as I progressed in, you know, places like the Upper East Citizens Brigade Theater and other kind of all comedy theaters in Los Angeles, which, you know, shows like Saturday Night Live and, you know, late night shows kind of used as farm teams, I kind of started to realize like, oh, there's not like... I'm like the only Native comedian that I'm seeing that's getting opportunities in these mainstream theaters. And then, you know, once you see that of like, oh, I'm not really seeing any other Native comedians performing on these stages, you start to think like, am I the first? Like, am I the first Native comedian to, you know, perform at these specific theaters or do these specific shows or to get on these teams or whatever? And like asking around, I kind of realized like, oh yeah, this theater has been around for 20 years and I'm the first Native comedian to kind of get these mainstream opportunities. And it's not that there weren't other Native comedians. I've been involved in Native Hollywood, which is kind of a loose collection of Native folks working in the entertainment industry since before I even dove into the LA comedy scene. And I knew a lot of really funny Native comedians that were just not really getting those mainstream opportunities.

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

Joey Clift:
And it's something that I tried to work on really hard in kind of the mid to late 2010s of trying to use my position to prop open the door for other Native comedians to kind of get opportunities on these stages. And, you know, something that I've realized over the past couple of years is while I've been doing that, there were a lot of other Native folks and non-Native folks who were like doing the same thing all around the country. So you know, it's been really cool to see like, even over the past four years, like I put together the first ever all Native comedy showcase at the UCB theater, it was in 2018. And that was five years ago. And even over the past five years, it's like, we've seen, you know, shows like Reservation Dogs, which is like the first one of the first comedy shows created by a native person on US TV and like Rutherford Falls is another one that, you know, also came out in like 2021. And a lot of the shows that I've been working on like Spirit Rangers on Netflix. And like realizing like, oh, we're a part of like really the first truly native created TV shows that are on television. And like, you know, these shows premiered in, you know, 2021 and Spirit Rangers premiered in 2022. And like, I am noticing that like, even since, you know, over the past two or three years, I'm seeing this like really beautiful explosion of Native comedians, like Native folks trying comedy. It's like, I feel like I used to be able to kind of name every Native comedian from like the open mic level to the, you know, the regular to regularly touring level, like just off the top of my head, because it was like, you know, maybe a couple dozen of us, maybe a hundred of us. And now I feel like I'm seeing. you know, people promoting all native comedy showcases in places like Oklahoma, you know, Arizona, Colorado, Seattle, you know, Los Angeles, and like I'll look at the bill and it's like, oh, I haven't heard a lot of these names. And like, that's awesome. Cause it means that there's like

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
new people that are starting out. And like, you know, and I've personally had people reach out to me and tell me that like, me being a visible native comedian has like inspired them, you know, native folks to like. try comedy or give standup a shot or think about taking an improv class or something like that. And it's like, I don't know, it's just it's so cool to be in like, I feel so blessed to be able to be like, you know, kind of the representation that I wished I had growing up, you know, and it's not it's not all me.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
There's like a ton of other native comedians doing, you know, really great work right now. But it's like to be a small part of that is so cool, you know.

Anya Smith:
I love that. And I think it's important to have role models. Like the same thing with this whole podcast. Like I want to have real stories of people pursuing something unique, right? I didn't grow up with entrepreneurs around my family. But

Joey Clift:
Yeah!

Anya Smith:
really, really like a lot of other examples of what other options there are besides like nine to five job, you know? And so there are so much out there in terms of possibility. And when we see that it's possible for somebody else, we can relate to that story. I think that's powerful. And I had like, well, if somebody else does it, why can't I? If it's not just like that unattainable person on the wall who looks always perfect, but we can share their real experience, that's a really powerful insight. So I appreciate you being that role model for others and just being here sharing your story.

Joey Clift:
Oh, thanks. I mean, it's like, it's all I just want to write goofs for a living, you know, it's like, it's sort of, I think that, you know, you don't you don't get into this being like, I will be a role model, but like, but I will say that I think that, as I've noticed that I'm in the position that I'm in, it definitely pushes me to like work harder and like, you know, show up on time and, you know, be, you know, on my game and like, if I'm doing a comedy show, like try to do my best and like, because it is sort of realizing that like, oh, it's important to have more people than just me if I bomb on this comedy show or do good on this comedy show or whatever, you know.

Anya Smith:
Yeah. And we mentioned like you've been on amazing networks, right? The ones that I watched going up and watched today. Do you think that, are you seeing the change in perspective of the networks towards like a native audience or just diverse stories? Do you see that more mainstream as well? And do you have a sense like why that's happening or kind of the changing trends around that?

Joey Clift:
Yeah, honestly, it's been really cool to see just kind of within the entertainment industry, like, you know, like I said, like there have been native comedians and native people working in the entertainment industry for years. But I feel like for a long time, the decision makers in the industry who are largely vast majority non native, you know, executives, producers, agents, managers, you know, people that are kind of the gatekeepers into, you know, selling TV shows are getting staffed in writers rooms are getting booked on comedy shows or whatever. They've been largely non-native. And I think that for a really long time, it felt like... whenever they would engage with native creatives, it would always be kind of in like a token way. So it was like

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

Joey Clift:
November is Native American Heritage Month. So it's like a lot of native comedians would like get, you know, they would get meetings with execs in November. And it's like, I remember I had one meeting where it was like, it was like 19 native comedians to one executive, which is not, that's not a meeting. That's a panel, you know, a meeting is usually one-on-one. Like,

Anya Smith:
Right, right.

Joey Clift:
and like, and it was like, you know, mid November and it kind of felt like Oh, you're not there's none of the comedians in this meeting are going to get further opportunities from this meeting. This is just something for that executive to like pat themselves on the back and think like I did a good thing I met with 19 native comedians and Native

Anya Smith:
Mm.

Joey Clift:
American Heritage Month, you know,

Anya Smith:
Yearly

Joey Clift:
and

Anya Smith:
quota checked.

Joey Clift:
Yeah, no, 100% like it felt like it was like a quota thing or like a token thing and like you know I think and like I remember like I like even a couple years ago, 2019, I pitched a show to a big animation production company. And I remember the executive who was like a straight white dude in his 60s, spent the entire meeting. Like first he said, like, wow, you're the first native comedian that I've ever took a pitch meeting from. And then, which I've heard before, but then he proceeded to not engage with my pitch at all. He just asked me questions like, how do you say hello in your native language? And like,

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
I'm from Ohio and the town next to the one I grew up had this name, is it a native name? And I'm like, I'm from Washington, man. Those are completely different tribes, I don't know.

Anya Smith:
Yeah, yeah.

Joey Clift:
And it's like, kind of felt like it was, you were treated like a museum piece more than you were treated like a creative that these executives desired to work with. So, I think that over the past couple of years, I would say, probably from like, 2018, 2019 onward. I think that more and more I've had meetings with executives who understand that they have a blind spot around Native comedians and Native issues. And they're, one, excited about Native stories. And they're, two, excited to rectify the wrongs of Native representation in the media in the past, like sports mascots and people getting shot in the back by John Wayne in old Western movies and stuff. And

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
it's like, and so yeah, I think that I feel fortunate in the projects that I'm working on. I feel like the executives understand where they have blind spots and they, I would say, lean on me as a creative and trust me as a creative maybe more than they would years previously. They understand that they don't know what a good joke for a Native character to say is. So if I say something that I think is funny as a Native comedian, they're like, well, sounds good to me in a way that like... in a way that even five years ago, they might just say like, I don't get it. It's cut, you know, because they don't have that life background or whatever. So yeah, I think that like, at least from my perspective, it really feels like we've seen a lot of positive change over the past couple of years. And it's really just like exciting and cool to see, especially from where we were even, you know, five years ago or whatever.

Anya Smith:
That's really cool. Can I ask one more question? I apologize if it sounds ignorant, but

Joey Clift:
Oh yeah, go for it.

Anya Smith:
how are you? I love, like, you're also educating not just executives, but just your audience, right? Who maybe don't have a Native American background, like, educating them about, like, cultural stereotypes and, like, this wisdom, like, you know, like not to appropriate, like, spirit animal and stuff like that. Like, what response are you seeing from an audience in terms of, like, being more, like, well, having more realistic understanding of the Native American background and kind of the art around it, but also taking it day to day into their lives and having more of a real knowledge versus stereotype, if that makes sense.

Joey Clift:
Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, it's really interesting. I think, like, a lot of, like, my God Native series and a lot of the stuff that I do is kind of focused on making fun of, like, those weird microaggressions that non-Natives will say to Native people. So stuff like, you know, like somebody, somebody getting a 23 and me that says that they're like, you know, 2% Cherokee or something like that. And then all of a sudden they feel like they can speak on behalf of all native people or like, you know, non-natives saying something is their spirit animal or calling a meeting a powwow or whatever, you know. So I think that like that's, that's like a lot of what I like to crack jokes about. And that's a lot of what my like on native series is about. But so I think that for me, people when because um like education about native people is so not great in this country i think that like this really great non-profit named illuminative did a research study a few years ago that showed that um 87 percent of u.s schools don't teach native history past 1900 so

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

Joey Clift:
because of that for a lot of non-native people just that we still exist and don't live in tps is like something that changes their worldview you know and um

Anya Smith:
Wow.

Joey Clift:
and i think that there's that that's it's kind of split 50 where like, I mean, I would don't even say 50 I'd say like maybe 70 30 80 20. You know, 70% of probably around 80% of people are, you know, they'll see that something is a blind spot. And if that's something that they're guilty of, they'll like understand that it's a joke. And they'll say like, Oh, yeah, that is weird that I do that. I'll stop doing that. And then I think that there's like 20% of people that kind of like dig their heels in a weird way. And it's sort of, and those are the people that it's like, you know, some of them are, you know, just ignorant. And then others are just like out now racist where they're just like, you should have died like your ancestors or whatever.

Anya Smith:
Oh

Joey Clift:
And it's

Anya Smith:
my

Joey Clift:
like,

Anya Smith:
gosh,

Joey Clift:
cool.

Anya Smith:
wow.

Joey Clift:
You know, so it's like, I feel like that's something you'd see in like the comment section of any sort of native comedy thing is like, just the existence of native people is offensive to them. But I think that for most people, they're like excited to. be educated and they're okay with seeing that there may be the bottom of the joke a little bit. And I feel like as far as Native folks go, it's like I'm getting a lot of appreciation from Native folks in like, you know, cracking jokes about these kinds of subjects.

Anya Smith:
I think humor is so powerful, right? Because then it gives people the grace to say, oh, maybe I didn't realize some of these things or these were my blind spots without making it seem like they have to be defensive because humor gives hopefully most people that chance to laugh at their own self and kind of be invited in that humor and kind of reflect in a less defensive way.

Joey Clift:
Yeah, for sure. When I think of there are just, there are some people that are open to laughing about themselves and there's some people that aren't open to laughing about themselves. But that's just kind of like, I don't know, it's the job of a comedian. And if somebody's not open to laughing about themselves after watching one of my shorts, then they're the butt of the joke of the short. So like, so I don't know. Congrats, I'm making fun of you, good job.

Anya Smith:
Speaking of that, I think it's challenging to go up to create this space for humor, something that also you deeply care about, and then just anticipate whatever reaction comes. I think it takes confidence and courage and practice and perseverance. Could you share, when we intro this, I think there could be a kind of this one, oh, it's glamorous and it's easy, and look at Joey, he's accomplished so much. But we talked about this in the prequel, it's really challenging. So if you don't mind like us pivoting, like what does that really look like? And just starting like, what was that process of gaining enough confidence or just perseverance to get yourself out there in the comedy space to start this humor journey and kind of how did you accomplish those kinds of steps?

Joey Clift:
Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, when you first start doing anything creative where you're like putting yourself out there, your beliefs, your point of view out there, it can for sure feel like, you know, daunting or intimidating or scary or whatever. Like, I mean, my as far as that stuff goes, like, one of the reasons that I got so into performance, even in like, middle school and high school and stuff is like, I used to be a kid with just like huge stage fright, like, you know, like standing up in front of my class was like a terrifying prospect. And like, I loved, you know, like cracking jokes in the back of the class, but it feels like you're kind of, you're not like the center of attention, you know? Um, and you're just sitting there sort of saying jokes to your friends and they'll laugh. And then maybe people that hear you around, you will laugh. But you know, standing up and giving like a presentation to a class was like always terrifying to me. So like, that's something that I kind of saw was a fear. and spent a lot of my, I would say, teenage years kind of working away at that. So hosting talent shows and doing, we had this thing called the morning announcements in my high school, which was like, every day a bunch of students who took a class would put on a news program for the school that was five minutes long and all the news stories were the lunch specials or whatever. And doing that, even though it terrified me, and just kind of leaning into the fear. So, you know, because of that, it's like I've legit, I've been doing stuff in front of people for about like, you know, 20, 23 years or something, I think at this point, like a couple of decades. And so I think that once I, you know, sort of got over the, you know, the high school feeling of like, oh, I'm doing something on stage at a talent show in high school, and like half the audience is laughing or 90% of the audience is laughing. But like 10% of the audience is like, look at that idiot, or whatever. You kind of develop a, you have to develop a thick skin in order to be able to like survive in this business. And it's definitely something that like, took me years to like really develop that skin. Like I remember the first like, talking to somebody in my math class after a talent show in high school, who was just like, what you did was dumb. And I was like, oh, I was, oh no. You know, like.

Anya Smith:
Oh gosh.

Joey Clift:
But I was just like, I don't know, like high school boys are going to be cruel, you know? And you know, like, that bumming me out, but me not taking that as a reason that I should stop doing what I'm doing. Because meanwhile, there's a ton of people that were like, that was the funniest thing ever. I love that, you know, and, you know, I feel like I was fortunate in that in my life, I've performed and done stuff in kind of ever expanding ecosystems. So my high school was for an audience of like a couple hundred other high school students or whatever. And then when I went to college at WSU, my audience was like maybe 10,000 WSU students or whatever, whoever was watching college TV at the time. And then when I moved to LA, that seems like a really big audience, but I was doing stuff in like the LA comedy scene, which was like maybe an audience of like a thousand people or so, just scattered around from various shows. So, you know, once I, and then I started doing like digital comedy stuff, which is like theoretically for an audience of everybody with the internet, but really it's for an audience of, you know, like a hundred thousand people that follow this YouTube channel or whatever. And you know, now that I'm doing stuff like a little bit more high profile, it's like, I feel like I've built up a really good tolerance to understanding if criticism is just haters or if it's coming from like an honest place of critique. You know, and you know, I could definitely like I remember when I was a like when I put my first sketch comedy video online in like 2012 and I was on like a sketch group in Los Angeles. Um, like it went like a little bit viral and I remember seeing one comment. Apologies. This is going to sound very offensive, but it's a quote from

Anya Smith:
It's

Joey Clift:
this

Anya Smith:
explicit.

Joey Clift:
comment. Yeah. As an explicit warning cover your ears if you don't like explicit stuff, but like There was a comment from somebody who watched my video on YouTube, my comedy video that said, uh, I hope that you get AIDS and kill yourself. And at first I saw that and I was like,

Anya Smith:
Oh my gosh.

Joey Clift:
what the wow, what the hell? And then I like clicked on this profile and saw that this person was clearly nine years old. And it's just like, once I saw that this was a nine year old, I was like, screw you, nine year old. I don't care what you like. I don't know. Like

Anya Smith:
They

Joey Clift:
you're

Anya Smith:
don't

Joey Clift:
just like

Anya Smith:
even have

Joey Clift:
saying,

Anya Smith:
a sense of like what that means, right?

Joey Clift:
yeah,

Anya Smith:
It's just such an intent.

Joey Clift:
totally.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
Yeah, and it's like that kind of deflates and it kind of made me realize that like, you know, that nine-year-old just wanted to hate shit on the internet and like, that nine-year-old is not coming from a place of honest critique in typing that. He probably just saw something that like he, for whatever reason, didn't like and thought that like saying the most intense thing we could possibly say was a good thing to do, you know?

Anya Smith:
Yeah,

Joey Clift:
And like,

Anya Smith:
or get

Joey Clift:
like

Anya Smith:
some

Joey Clift:
I said,

Anya Smith:
attention.

Joey Clift:
he's nine.

Anya Smith:
Get

Joey Clift:
Yeah,

Anya Smith:
some attention,

Joey Clift:
whatever gives him

Anya Smith:
like

Joey Clift:
attention.

Anya Smith:
feeling, ooh, I did that.

Joey Clift:
Yeah, totally, totally. And it's like, I don't know, I was a shit when I was nine, too. It's like, I get it. But it's like, I think it's so I think that it's like looking at, you know, understanding that if you're reading the comments that like, you can tell the difference between somebody who like is looking at your thing from like a critical point of view versus they just like want to hate it because like, I don't know, they like don't like the music or something, you know. So, and I think that when you do that, it's like, that's like a really important lesson to learn as a creative is like, everybody who says everything about everything that you make is not necessarily somebody you should listen to. And like, there's definitely, you shouldn't totally put your blinders on for like every piece of criticism that you get, because like there are some people that, you know, that do have like genuine critiques, but. you know, like I would say 99.999% of comments on the internet are not coming from a place of like, oh, I hope my goal is to have this person get better, you know, it's just because they like, don't agree with it or like the voice actors annoying to them or like whatever, you know, and that's just like, you can't it's important. It's impossible to have 100% of people like your thing, you know,

Anya Smith:
Absolutely.

Joey Clift:
like if you get 50%, you're doing great, you know,

Anya Smith:
Yeah. And do you mind me asking like, how do you, again, like there was this path and you build up this resilience, but you mentioned that there was a point where that gentleman gave you not the kindest feedback, but you're like, that's not a reason to give up. So is there something that you, that internally drives you? Was there maybe an example, role model, just like internal mission work, just passion that gets you through those challenging moments?

Joey Clift:
Yeah, well, I think that like I think that there's like a couple things I think that I think that I'm somebody that like is pretty stubborn and fueled by spite. So like, you know, so if anything, it's like, I remember when I was in high school, I was like working at a pizza hut. And my manager while I was like washing dishes or whatever set told me that she was like, what do you want to do with your life? Because I don't think you're going to accomplish anything or whatever, you know? And it's

Anya Smith:
Oh

Joey Clift:
like,

Anya Smith:
my

Joey Clift:
why

Anya Smith:
gosh.

Joey Clift:
would you say that? And she sucked, so whatever. You know, but like, but it's like hearing that I was like, oh, I'm going to like work twice as hard now to prove you wrong, you know?

Anya Smith:
Mm.

Joey Clift:
And then, you know, so I think that like there's part of it's that. And then I think I think that honestly, I'm just somebody that like, you hear this a lot, like working in the entertainment industry is a really competitive industry. And it's a really hard industry to break into. And like, because of that, I think that you need to analyze it's like, something that I hear from people as advice, oftentimes that have been in the industry for, you know, years longer than me, is that if there's anything that you could do in your life that is not working in this industry, do that. Like, if you think you'd be happier being a school be an accountant or be a whatever, you know, like, because this is an industry that like, you know, like you're gonna like my first three years in Los Angeles, I like slept on my brother's couch, you know, because I couldn't afford to not sleep on my brother's couch. Like I think, you know, and like it wasn't until even maybe a couple years ago that I started to make even like, okay money in the entertainment industry. And that's being here for 13 years, you know, this is an industry that like you really have to like dedicate yourself to and work hard and grind away at. And for me, it's like, I think that I'm somebody that needs to do this work. And I don't necessarily mean that in like, a romantic, like, oh, I'm born to be an artist or whatever kind of way. I mean it more like, I think that I'm somebody where if I was like working as an accountant for my tribe in Southern Washington, I would still like, be on an improv team in Portland on the side or something like that. I would still

Anya Smith:
Right.

Joey Clift:
be like making like little fun short films with people that I knew and like the Southern Washington film scene or whatever, you know, I just like, I would still be writing like funny tweets or whatever because I think that like, I just am kind of a goofball and that's just like, and like I think just making stuff is something that just brings me like that's my stasis point. That's like what I like I I'm somebody that I talk about like Like making things, working in the entertainment industry, writing, creating, you know, directing things, producing things, whatever. That's like my job, but it's also my hobby. It's also what I do for fun. And it's like what I love doing. So it's like, for me, even if I wasn't getting paid to do this stuff, if I lived in, you know, the middle of the country, working in HR or whatever, I would still do this stuff on the side because it's just the thing that brings me the most joy in the world. So, you know, that's kind of what I was saying about like, that's kind of my drive is realizing that like You know, it's like, if I want to make people laugh so bad that my dream career when I'm 20 is to be a weather guy in Post Falls, Idaho, that means there's something inside me of just loving, entertaining people. And also

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
learning that, like, I don't have to, like, live in Post Falls, Idaho to do that, you know? Nothing wrong with Post Falls, Idaho, not shit talking. It's just that's a real place that offered me a job as I was finishing college.

Anya Smith:
That's awesome. That's awesome. And you know, life took you here and it's amazing to see that. And one thing if you don't mind me sharing, we talked about the prep call, like just the reality that you have to adjust your mindset for to your point, like it takes time to break in and there's a lot of less grammar things. And do you mind us touching upon that? Because one thing if you go to your website, which is dated, to be transparent, like

Joey Clift:
Oh yeah,

Anya Smith:
I

Joey Clift:
it

Anya Smith:
looked

Joey Clift:
will be

Anya Smith:
at your

Joey Clift:
updated

Anya Smith:
resume.

Joey Clift:
in the

Anya Smith:
No,

Joey Clift:
next, it'll be updated

Anya Smith:
no,

Joey Clift:
by

Anya Smith:
not

Joey Clift:
the end

Anya Smith:
to

Joey Clift:
of

Anya Smith:
call

Joey Clift:
this

Anya Smith:
you

Joey Clift:
year,

Anya Smith:
out

Joey Clift:
I

Anya Smith:
on

Joey Clift:
promise.

Anya Smith:
that. That's not the reason I call it out. But you look at a resume and if anybody like, we talk about regular resumes on LinkedIn, that's one thing. You look at Joey's resume, it's long. And you just see the timeline of overlapping activities, like just the amount of work. It's not like a job where you have security. Can you dive into what that really looks like when you are, you don't have a set job. You have to be very comfortable being very temperate in the works. Can you dive into the reality of that?

Joey Clift:
Oh yeah, like I remember like I've been in LA for around 13 years and I think that so I forget it might have been you I forget who it was but somebody like told me that they looked at my LinkedIn and they saw that in the past 13 years I've worked for I think 78 different places or something like that or

Anya Smith:
Yeah,

Joey Clift:
it was

Anya Smith:
it

Joey Clift:
like

Anya Smith:
wasn't

Joey Clift:
it was

Anya Smith:
me,

Joey Clift:
like

Anya Smith:
but you told me that I think in

Joey Clift:
yeah

Anya Smith:
the first call.

Joey Clift:
it was and like they counted and they were like yeah in the past since I moved to and around 100 different jobs. And I think that the entertainment industry is an industry where you're not gonna work at one place for 20 years. Maybe if you're like a writer for the Simpsons, you'll get lucky or whatever, but for the vast majority of folks, your jobs are gonna last anywhere from a few days to a few months. Like my job on Spirit Rangers lasted about two and a half years and that was by far my longest job in Los Angeles. And while I was on Spirit Rangers, I did because you know that every job in LA is finite. You can't really rest on your laurels. Like even while I was working as a writer consulting producer on a Netflix show, I was developing and pitching other shows. I was making this Comedy Central series. I was doing speaking engagements and stuff like that because at a certain point, every job is going to end. And fortunately with that job, it's like because of the way the contracts worked out, I knew like, oh, my out date is December 2022 or whatever. But. But it's like, you're always trying to kind of set up, you're always trying to like do your hardest on the thing that you're working on now, but also trying to plant seeds for, you know, when you're out of work eventually, you know? And it is also an industry, like I mentioned, where you kind of always have to be doing stuff to stay fresh. So it's like, I remember like while I was in, like in kind of my early days in Los Angeles, like 2013, 2014, I would be on like three or four different house sketch teams at theaters, which all had different monthly shows. All those teams would have weekly meetings. So we'd all meet once a week for two hours for four different teams. That's four different meetings once a week. Those are usually at night, like around like, you know, eight to 10 or so. I would be working a day job as like, you know, an assistant or like a junior writer on something that would be kind of the things I would do from like, you know, eight until five or nine until six or whatever every day. And then you know, in my free time, usually on lunch breaks, I'd be like writing my sketches for those meetings. And then I would also be like writing my own, you know, pilots and writing samples on weekends and stuff like that. So like, it really kind of just becomes your whole life in like a way that like, you know, in a way that personally, like I enjoy, like I like being that busy, but it's like, I remember there was a time when I was in WSU, where I was like very involved at WSU and just involved in a lot of clubs and doing stuff like that. And my last semester, I was I had a day where it's like, I had to wake up at five in the morning to record like a scene from a short film that I wrote. And then that required me to like be covered in like fake blood or something like that because it was like a comedy action thing. And then we finished shooting at 9 45. And then I had to run still wearing all this fake blood makeup in my costume to my news class at 10 o'clock. And then I was in that class until like noon. And then I like had lunch with a friend. And then after that had to record like a segment for a college TV show at like one or something. And then at two, I like, and that was like, I recorded the segment still covered in fake blood from like six in the morning.

Anya Smith:
Were

Joey Clift:
I just

Anya Smith:
people

Joey Clift:
like

Anya Smith:
terrified?

Joey Clift:
made that. No, I mean, like I just said, like, it was clear I was wearing like a costume. I think I had like a fake

Anya Smith:
Yeah,

Joey Clift:
mustache

Anya Smith:
yeah,

Joey Clift:
on or something.

Anya Smith:
yeah.

Joey Clift:
And I was just like, yeah, I'm recording a short film, didn't have time to like wash off, sorry. And then, like, you know, recorded this segment for this college TV station still wearing fake blood. And I just like explained it on camera. And I was just like, I was just like, I had a really tough drive to get here, whatever. And everybody laughed. And then like ran home, finally took a shower, got back to the school at like five to record the news for the day. Because the school was kind of the local news program as well. And I was like anchoring and then finished that at like. eight, had a meeting for a club that finished at nine. And then at 10, I was being interviewed for like a college TV radio or college radio station. And I like got back to my, like the house I was staying in college at like midnight. And it was just like, oh, that was like a full, full day. And I remember like, while I was being interviewed for that college radio show, thinking like, oh, when I'm like, out of here, I want every day to be like this.

Anya Smith:
Oh

Joey Clift:
And

Anya Smith:
wow.

Joey Clift:
like, because that just, it just felt so cool. And it's like, You know, yeah, every day is not like that. But I feel like I have a lot of days like that in a way that like, um, like I was, um, interviewed for this big, um, NPR radio show in Portland a few weeks, a few months ago in like February. And, um, they flew me in for it. Um, it was in this like big theater in Portland. And this is like a, you know, a nationally distributed radio show. And they wanted me to come on and talk about my Comedy Central show and just other comedy stuff that I'm doing. And like, my flight left LA at like noon I landed in Portland at two checked into my hotel at two thirty at like two thirty or three like took a shower got lunch with a friend immediately after lunch took a 15 minute nap got into a lift went to like the local TV station because they wanted to interview me about the spirit Rangers Netflix show

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
and then from that TV station went to the theater to record this like live radio show at like eight or nine or something like that. got on stage, got a big laugh, did well or whatever,

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
hung out for 10 minutes afterwards, got into a Lyft, went back to the hotel, had like Thai food from a food truck or something like that in my hotel room, went to bed at

Anya Smith:
Glorious.

Joey Clift:
like midnight, woke up at like 6 a.m. for my flight that left at 7.30 a.m. and then was back in LA by like 11. And it's just like, oh, I don't, every day is not like that, but I love that that's what my life is. I just like, I like being busy.

Anya Smith:
I love that you have those, because I'm like, oh my gosh. I'm like, that sounds so fancy, but that's uniquely you. And can I also share one thing that I really enjoyed? You've reiterated it a moment over and over again. This is something you do professionally, and then as a hobby, you do it as well. And I remember you mentioning that now, when you have idea, you don't necessarily wait for permission. You're just like, I'm still gonna write this. I'm still gonna, I'm gonna be sharing it out so that if somebody turns it down, they're gonna come back to me. Can you share more about like that part of the whole story

Joey Clift:
Oh

Anya Smith:
where you're

Joey Clift:
yeah,

Anya Smith:
at now?

Joey Clift:
for sure. Oh yeah, when I should also say like that radio program was on, I did not get paid a lot of money for that. They just like covered traveling, gave me like a hundred bucks or something. So I was like,

Anya Smith:
Hey,

Joey Clift:
so

Anya Smith:
that's

Joey Clift:
I was

Anya Smith:
cool.

Joey Clift:
not doing that for monetary again. I was just doing that cause

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
it's like, oh, this sounds like it'd be fun. The other

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
thing I was, I think that I was in Portland for a total of like 16 hours or something.

Anya Smith:
Hoo.

Joey Clift:
It was great. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like, yeah, I don't know. I think that like, so I was talking about this earlier about like, I feel like it's really easy to get in your head about sort of the gatekeepers in your life. So by that, I mean, I feel like especially in creative fields, or like, you know, anything that you want to anytime that you want to do something that is like your idea, you feel like, Oh, I can't do this because my boss said that they don't want me to do that. I can't do it or like, you know, or I pitched it to a theater and the artistic director passed on it or like, you know, or I pitched it to a network and they said no, or like, you know, or I like, you know, auditioned for this school play or something like that and then I didn't get it. And like, I think that a lot of people let that be the like, oh, okay, I guess I'm not allowed to be creative, you know, and they'll kind of like, let that discourage them. And I think that for me, it's like, I think that if you believe strongly enough about an idea, you find your own way to do it.

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

Joey Clift:
And I like to think about it, and the thing is, is like, if you do that, it will inevitably lead to those people that said no earlier running after you saying yes, because they see that you can move under your own power and you don't need them. So like

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
that, that bear short, the crazy long name that we talked about earlier, like, I originally came up with that idea to pitch it to. documentary that like a high level TV writer was directing and they were looking for sort of animated shorts about kind of native stuff. So I emailed this to him just saying like, you know, like we met and he told me about this. So I emailed him this idea for the bear short. And you know, he just, it took him like a couple months to get back to me. And it kind of felt like this can sometimes happen in the entertainment industry where it's like you'll email somebody about something and you'll just never hear anything back. So

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
I remember like emailing this to him and then like, yeah, not hearing back from him after like a month and thinking to myself like, well, I don't think that this person's ever going to get back to me, but I really like this idea. And like, he doesn't own it. I didn't sign anything. So I'm just going to like

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
make it anyway. So I reached out to, you know, my friend David Cantowitz, who's this really great animator. My friend, Jason Grasel, who's a really great voice actor, who's a member of the Blackfeet tribe. And, you know, just like figured out like, oh yeah, how much would it cost to make this? Like, and then I figured

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
out like, oh yeah, I could, you know, with the help of a couple of friends and like a little bit of money, I could make this on my own. I like edited the audio track myself. I like wrote the script and, you know, gave notes on, you know, the art and like, you know, directed it and, you know, sat in the video booth with the actor to make sure this performance was exactly what I wanted. And then I just like made the thing on my own. And then I like emailed it to this director, basically saying like, Hey, just letting you know, you can remove this short from consideration from the doc. I just made it myself anyway, here's a link to it. And he responded immediately with like, holy shit, I'm so sorry that I didn't respond to this. This is incredible. And then two weeks later, he was like, do you wanna be a consulting producer on the documentary? And that short, screened in dozens of festivals, screened at the Smithsonian and has millions of views online. And... That's just because I didn't take somebody not responding to my email as a reason to completely abandon an idea. I was like, I still believe in this and it feels producible based on the people I know. So I like made it myself. And then the people that originally said no to me on that idea were like chasing after me to work with me when they saw that I made it myself without their help. And like it turned out great and it was getting accolades and stuff, you know.

Anya Smith:
And I love that because I think, A, it's amazing to hear that experience in your example, but I think that could be a reminder for all of us where instead of just waiting for permission or kind of stopping at our tracks because somebody didn't like our idea or whatever it is, when you go for it, that can garner attention from those people that you want attention, but maybe from others too. I like this example when they mentioned, if you're on the side of the road and your car is broken down. and you're trying to get help, like less people, like not a lot of people are gonna actually wanna help you out, but when they see you pushing the car, people are more likely, like when you're putting in the effort and they see you doing, people wanna help you. And I found the same thing with like my podcast. I was like, I have never created a podcast. I don't really know anybody's created a podcast, but I'm gonna do it and I'm gonna learn along the way and I'm

Joey Clift:
Yeah!

Anya Smith:
gonna ask for help. You know what I mean? Like what, who cares? You know, and same thing, like people who I reached out to earlier who was like, Hey, I have this podcast idea. Like haven't started yet. Would you be interested in like crickets? And now people are reaching back out to me, like, Oh, like, so sorry. I forgot, like, which, you know, it happens. People are busy. I don't take anything personal. Like I come in with like zero expectations and like lots of gratitude. Like so grateful for everybody listening, joining, being part of this. But like, I just didn't stop to wait for that permission or like get hung up with somebody. didn't join this process or did, you know, like it's just all part of the learning process and I'll figure it out and I do believe in timing too.

Joey Clift:
But also, I mean, you know, not to not to poop with this emotion, but like, it feels really good when people come crawling back. Like, like that's something like, it's like, you know, I mean, I've definitely felt that like I had this podcast idea that I like I had a podcast in 2016 that had kind of a weird, a weird concept. The concept was that it was called 25 minutes of silence. And it was a podcast where guest and I just sat in silence for 25 minutes. And I got like a lot of really big guests on it. And that was kind of what was funny to me is getting like important people and just not we don't say anything to each other. I don't ask any questions. We just introduce ourselves up top, sit quietly for 25 minutes and then plug our social media and then we're out. And I remember like just to kind of saying that to a couple people in the L.A. comedy scene and people being some people being like, oh, that's really funny. But then some people being like, that's the worst idea I've ever heard in my life. And there were a few people that I like interviewed to that I emailed to ask to interview on it. that did not respond to my email and then or they responded saying like, no, I don't got time for that. And then like I made the podcast anyway. And then it got like, like got coverage and like the AV club daily dot and it kind of went like viral a little bit. And then like, I remember the day that like articles about like how great the podcast is started coming out. Those people that earlier said no emailed me back and they were like, Oh, I just thought this podcast was a joke. I'd love to do it. And it's like, it's like, you just saying yes, because like it's getting media attention now

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
and like, and now you're like, oh, I've changed my mind. It was a good idea after it got popular, you know?

Anya Smith:
Yeah, and to a point there is something motivating where like somebody doesn't respond and then it feels like, hey, let me make it so good that you can't ignore me kind of thing,

Joey Clift:
Yeah,

Anya Smith:
right?

Joey Clift:
and then they do respond and it's just like, well, you know,

Anya Smith:
Let's

Joey Clift:
and

Anya Smith:
see,

Joey Clift:
it's like, I don't

Anya Smith:
let's

Joey Clift:
know.

Anya Smith:
see.

Joey Clift:
And it's like, I think that but I think that but I think that that's like, I think that that's like, you know, it's like, people are going to say no to you your whole life when it comes to like this creative stuff. And it's like,

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
it is so validating to have somebody who said no to you, because they didn't like your idea, they didn't believe in you, like, I don't know, like, have to eat their own words when you when you blow up or you're things successful, or you're just doing it without them, you know? And I think

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
that like, that's something that I've really seen in a lot of times, just in my own career is like, I've, you know, like gotten a no from a gatekeeper, made it anyway, or gotten a no from, or gotten, you know, like just somebody being like, this is dumb or whatever from somebody. And then I do it anyway, and just kind of ignore whatever they said. And then it like blows up, gets popular, gets media attention, whatever. And then those are like the first people that email you being like, actually, like, I don't know, I like, I saw that you're getting media attention, we should get coffee and catch up. And it's like,

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
you said this idea was the dumbest thing ever, six months ago. And now that it's popular, you want to like, hang out with me again, you know?

Anya Smith:
Yeah, yeah, I love that. No, it's so true. And again, it's validating. And I think there's something also to say, like, you have to earn your stripes, right? So I think it is,

Joey Clift:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
it doesn't make sense, like when I'm joining something like being entrepreneurial for like, what less than three months doing this for a month in now even less, like, I get where people like, who are you? Like, who are you? I'm busy, right? So I think that there's also just like, It is good to motivate yourself. It's good to also just be like, hey, I understand people are busy, but I also

Joey Clift:
Well

Anya Smith:
wanna

Joey Clift:
that

Anya Smith:
get

Joey Clift:
too.

Anya Smith:
their attention and do all that good stuff.

Joey Clift:
Well, that too. Well, I think that there is something where it's like there is a difference between like, you know, sometimes people are busy and if they don't respond to you, it's like it's not it's the oftentimes the reason for a no from a gatekeeper is not a personal attack on you. It's

Anya Smith:
Mm-hmm.

Joey Clift:
like, like that, that director of that documentary that I mentioned, the reason that he said no is that he's like, a working TV writer who's extremely busy. And he probably just like

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
the email that he'd set aside for that he probably just hadn't looked at it for a couple months or something like that. And I think that he was telling me he like, he was basically like, I'm collecting all these pitches for animated short ideas. And the idea is that a year or two down the road, I'll make it or something like that.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
And, you know, so for there's a world where I could look at him not responding to my email. Uh, when I sent him those ideas as like, my ideas were so bad, it wasn't even worth the breath to respond or whatever.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
Or I could look at it more, you know, like, I mean, or like what actually happened was just like, oh, this guy's just really busy. And like,

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
So me coming back to him and sending him the short and saying, like, hey, I made it on my own, withdraw from the whatever. He was very apologetic and very kind. And he explained to me that he's just really busy. And he planned on making

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
those kind of further down the path. And it doesn't mean that he's a bad person or anything. But he saw that I was somebody that was willing to move under my own power. So then he brought me into the fold to work on the doc, because he was like, oh, like, uh, Clearly this person can get things done on their own so I can trust them to produce segments for this documentary or whatever.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
That said, there are some people that just suck, but I think that more often than not, it's like the no is, because people are busy or because like, if you're pitching a TV show, it's like the network mandate, what they're looking for has changed and that's not on you.

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
It's like, it's just your idea is no longer with what the mandate is. It's like

Anya Smith:
For sure.

Joey Clift:
if they wanna buy apples and you're trying to sell them bananas, like, Doesn't mean that

Anya Smith:
Yeah,

Joey Clift:
your bananas are bad,

Anya Smith:
not your

Joey Clift:
they

Anya Smith:
food

Joey Clift:
just

Anya Smith:
salad.

Joey Clift:
don't want bananas,

Anya Smith:
Yeah,

Joey Clift:
you know, yeah.

Anya Smith:
I love it. One day I tell you, I'm gonna try to pitch this idea maybe to a show, so who knows? Who knows where it'll take us? Who knows where ideas

Joey Clift:
Yay.

Anya Smith:
take us? Explore them and

Joey Clift:
Yeah!

Anya Smith:
drive your potential and don't be like, oh, well, right now it's just an idea. It won't go anywhere. Who knows? Explore, work on it, see where it will take you and don't take things personally or as a stopping point. With that in mind, we talked about all the real stuff, which I really appreciate, but I also do wanna talk about What have been your favorite moments of this whole process? To get to the joy, what are the magical things that happen when you are in the writing room, when you get to create all this stuff from your creative place and help other people see you as a role model and maybe somebody who they can emulate on their path?

Joey Clift:
So, I don't know, I feel fortunate that, I feel fortunate that like, though, I still feel like I've been at this for 10, 11, 12, 13 years. I mean, I've been at it in LA for 13 years, and then before that, high school, college, or whatever. So I've probably been doing this for like, I've probably been trying to get people to laugh while on stage for like two decades or so. And, you know, but I still feel like I'm fairly new in my career. Um, like I think that, um, like they, have you ever heard the phrase like, uh, like, um, an overnight success takes 10 years?

Anya Smith:
Yes.

Joey Clift:
Yeah. It's like, I feel like that's very true in the entertainment industry. And it's like, for me, I feel like, you know, I, I feel like I've really started to get attention in my career, maybe within the past, like two, three years. And that's like about a decade of me being in LA grinding away for people to kind of finally take notice. Um, and for a lot of those gatekeepers to like. you know, maybe they were like completely stonewalling me 10 years ago, but now they're just like throwing the doors open for me to work with them, which is really cool and exciting to see. But, um, you know, I think that like, as far as just like, all timer moments, it's like, um, I think back to when I made that college TV show that won that big National College Comedy Award, I was, I co-wrote it with my friend Pat and co-starred in it with him. And I remember the college TV station at WSU, they did like a screening for all of the college TV shows, first episodes of the season, where like, you know, everybody from the college TV station, new theater, and we all watched each other's first episodes on a big screen and you know, applauded and stuff like that. And I remember being so nervous when this college TV show was screening in front of the audience because like, I was like, this is funny and good to me, but like to other, will other people like it? Like, and you know, I remember sitting in the far back of the theater, of this packed theater, like theater slash classroom, like slouched in my chair. next to my friend that I co-wrote and co-starred in it with and both of us being like, oh, I hope this isn't embarrassing. And watching

Anya Smith:
exit.

Joey Clift:
it, yeah, I mean, kind of, you know.

Anya Smith:
Yeah,

Joey Clift:
And

Anya Smith:
right.

Joey Clift:
I remember it just killing. And it's like every joke hit. There were like, I think there was like a couple of applause breaks on jokes. And then when it was over, it got like this, you know, 15-minute long college TV show. It got like a standing ovation from this room of people. And that for me was just such a moment of like, I don't know what this feeling is, but this is the feeling that I'm gonna be chasing my whole life. And I've, you know, I think that I've achieved similar experiences of when I put together that first ever all-native comedy show at UCB, that was like a standing room only sellout. You know, we had like two dozen native comedians on the bill. every comedian killed it, like, you know, going out into the audience to like one of the biggest, like such a big ovation that like it felt like I was going to be knocked over from the energy. You know, and then just like every joke killing and just looking out of the audience and seeing like, you know, like a packed one of the coolest comedy theaters in the world, completely packed with like native folks, non-native folks, young native folks, native elders, and like really feeling like, oh, we did it. It's like, whatever this is, we pulled it off. And then it feeling like deeply fulfilling that I created, that something that I cared so much about and worked so hard on was something that other people cared about too. And I think that as I progressed, I think that that's something that I've started to realize and that feeling that I felt when I was in college watching my first college TV show that I wrote and co-started and stuff, like screening from an audience and feeling like I put so much of myself into this and that

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
an audience is responding to it with the same amount of love that I put into it. is like amazing and like with Spear Rangers, the Netflix show as a writer, consultant, producer on. I remember a couple, the show premiered in October of 2022. So just a couple months, so just less than a year ago.

Anya Smith:
And it's a kids

Joey Clift:
And

Anya Smith:
cartoon just

Joey Clift:
yeah, it's

Anya Smith:
for

Joey Clift:
a,

Anya Smith:
context, if anybody hasn't seen it, check it out.

Joey Clift:
oh thanks, yeah, it's on Netflix. Everybody check it out. So I was invited to speak on a panel about the show with the show's creator, Chris Valencia, who's a genius Chumash TV writer. And we did this hour-long presentation on Spirit Rangers for people at this film festival in Vancouver, British Columbia. And during the Q&A, the first person that asked a question, and this was maybe two weeks after the show came out, was just a Native person who was in tears telling us how much the show meant to them. And it wasn't even a question. It was just somebody through tears thanking us for like, helping make this show that was the first time that she'd really seen people like her on TV. And this was a woman in her probably late 30s, early 40s. And so for me, that's like, oh, we put so much of our, we put our whole hearts into that show and that people are picking up on that. And Native folks are getting it. It's just so fulfilling and cool. And it's like, so I think it's like, those are the kinds of things that sort of keep me going. And... And it's not that everything that I make elicits that level of response, but there is just something, you know, like when you hit it, it's like when you have those moments in your life and career, you start to realize like, okay, like I've, it took a lot of sacrifice to where I get work to get to where I am today. But like all of that sacrifice is worth it that I was able to. feel this and elicit this response from people from something that I feel so passionately about, you know?

Anya Smith:
I'm grateful that you didn't become a weatherman, although I'm sure you've been hilarious and amazing

Joey Clift:
I put

Anya Smith:
at

Joey Clift:
just

Anya Smith:
it.

Joey Clift:
as much passion into the weather. I'm sure. Oh, yeah when there was also like there was a You mentioned this I think in the notes but like um Like I won the yes and laughter lab Mike on native series wanted in 2019 which is a big comedy incubator lab and they flew me out to New York to kind of pitch my show to a room full of like over a hundred like execs funders people work at nonprofits and stuff like that and it was there were me and four and five other winners and all the other winners were like there were comedians who performed on late night TV shows and there were people with like, you know, big followings and I'm primarily like I'm a comedian but I'm primarily a writer. I'm like a writer comedian so I don't I write more than I go on stage. So I was like so nervous to, you know, pitch this show that I felt so strongly about to this room full of people and it's like, you know, I did my pitch and it was like, you know, I was so near I would like was doing the Eminem thing where I was like about to throw up in the bathroom like before I was going to go on stage and stuff because I was so nervous. And

Anya Smith:
Right.

Joey Clift:
then I got on stage and just really like, you know, poured my heart out about like how much I care about native representation and like, while also saying jokes that got big laughs. And it's like, I don't know, I got like so much love from that audience. And like, I, you know, was one of only, I mean, I was like the only just like straight up writer doing it. And like that I was able to like, compete at the level of these very, very seasoned comedians. That's like, you know, just by leading with passion, it's like. You know, there's, it's like, I feel like you have, um, you know, maybe like, I may have maybe like five or 10 moments like that in my career where it's just like, Oh, this is, this is why I'm doing this, you know.

Anya Smith:
Yeah, I love that to your point, like leading a passion, the power and where that can take you. And my friend, this has been awesome. I knew it would be, but I want to wrap up with some advice that you would give to somebody who's audacious and passionate as you are, maybe thinking they could be, like what advice would you give somebody who's considering joining this space or maybe they're in it and they're struggling right now? Any parting wisdom or love

Joey Clift:
Okay,

Anya Smith:
for those people.

Joey Clift:
so I'm gonna give the same advice that nine-year-old posted as a comment on my, just kidding, be horrible.

Anya Smith:
Hahaha

Joey Clift:
Yeah, no, yeah, I think it's like, that was a joke. I think like it's... It's really vulnerable. You're putting yourself in a very vulnerable position to pursue things that you're passionate about. It's very easy to fly under the radar and go to your nine to five job and then watch the Big Bang Theory after you get home or whatever and then call that a nice happy life. But I think that, and I can only really speak for my career and my life, it's... It's worth it to take risks. I mean, I think something that I often think about, like I talk to a lot of friends that, you know, live outside of Los Angeles that tell me that they, like, you know, they're like, oh, I really want to move to Los Angeles. I'd love to like try to work, you know, right in TV or whatever. And, you know, I always tell those people, like give it a shot, you know, move here, do it for a year or two. And if you don't like it or if it doesn't go well, like, I don't know, you can move home, it's fine. And I think that the reason that I say that is that I don't wanna be one of those people that is spending the next 40 years of my life talking about like, oh, I've got an idea for a screenplay that I've always wanted to write, or like, oh, I've always wanted to try improv, or like, I've always wanted to get into baking, or whatever. You know, we're like, all of my things are performance focused because I'm a comedian, but it's like, oh, I've always wanted to like, paint a cool painting or paint a mural or whatever. And it's like, I don't want to live my life spending my time wishing that I did something. Because if you try something, if you try painting, I mean, if you've always wanted to paint a mural and you try painting a mural and it turns out awful, and afterwards you're like, I didn't really like doing that and the mural didn't turn out great. then you're not gonna spend the next 30 years of your life being like, I wish I could paint a mural because you like did it, you know? And it's like, it's okay to try something and not like it. If nothing else, try it so that you don't spend your life wondering what would happen if you did try it. And it's

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
okay if it doesn't work out. Like, it's okay if you like get up on stage to do standup for the first time and you hate it and you like throw up afterwards. And then you're like, well, I've, I've scra I've decided I've tried it and I don't want to do standup now. Um, and I think it's important to like, yeah, you know, I mean, like follow your dreams if, or give your dreams a shot if nothing else, so that they don't stay dreams, you know, let yourself like, like if you try it and you don't like it, then it gives you the head space to move on to the next thing, which maybe you will like, or you will love, or you will get like some fruit back from or whatever, you know, so just, I don't know, I know it's scary, but just do the thing. And if it, and if, and if you don't like it or it doesn't turn out great, that's fine. You know, it's okay to like try something and say it's not for you. That's not quitting. That's just like giving an honest assessment of how you felt about doing the thing, you know?

Anya Smith:
Yeah, I

Joey Clift:
And

Anya Smith:
love

Joey Clift:
you never

Anya Smith:
that.

Joey Clift:
know if you do that with enough things, eventually you'll find the thing that you love, you know, that you love and that gives back to you as much as you give to it.

Anya Smith:
I love that. So try it out. There's no harm in trying something

Joey Clift:
Yeah.

Anya Smith:
out and it not working out. You're learning, you're growing. And again, to your point, I agree to me the biggest thing is like, I don't want to regret not doing something. And I don't mean like I'm taking it to like life extremes where I'm like, potentially this could harm myself. But for the most part, it's not quite as extreme as that. And I try and I know that I'm not going to go on regretting not doing something, which to me is the hardest.

Joey Clift:
Yeah, for sure. Well, yeah, like it is a very like, you know, completely understandable with like current life, you know, you don't want to like make a choice, make a drastic choice that puts your like family at risk or something like that. But it's like, I don't know, it's like, like I, like I'm 39 years old, and I wrestled my first ever pro wrestling match in October in March, you know,

Anya Smith:
What?

Joey Clift:
and I've been a lifelong pro wrestling fan. And I like started working with a personal trainer in January to get like in, you know, at least not like

Anya Smith:
Look

Joey Clift:
I'm

Anya Smith:
at these

Joey Clift:
not

Anya Smith:
nuggets

Joey Clift:
like I'm gonna

Anya Smith:
that you're just throwing in there.

Joey Clift:
And it's like, I don't know, I'm like, I've been a huge pro wrestling fan my whole life. And I'm definitely one of those dorks that have like, I'd love to get into the ring at some point. And like, I did it. And it was like, it was like, amazingly fun. And I think I'm gonna do it again. But I also understand that like, I'm not going to be a pro wrestler for my career. Like,

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
like, I'm not that athletic. But it's like, oh, I tried it. And now I like Now I try it and I tried it and now I can at least say like, oh, I did it once and I loved it. And maybe I'll do it again or maybe I won't, but I like went for it,

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
you know.

Anya Smith:
I love it. You're awesome. And everybody listening, I'd love to know, like we would love to know what is your pro wrestling moment or what is that thing that maybe you're like, I really want to give it a try. Like listening to this, like, please like, just give it a chance. Even as one small step, like I'm, I'm sure you'll be amazed to see like, if you stop letting that fear or kind of other people telling you no, driving your decisions, like really amazing stuff can happen. So if it's Joey telling you, if it's other members from our podcast sharing their stories, like, I hope it inspires you to see what more can happen. And if this resonates with you, please share with your friends, anybody who's maybe thinking about going to this space or just anybody who wants a little bit of motivation around what can happen when you embrace your own unique journey, like this is a great episode to share and I value that support. Joey, anything else you want to wrap up before I give you three short bit questions and then we'll get going. Let you enjoy your day.

Joey Clift:
No, no, I think that covers it. Yeah, just like, I don't know, follow your dreams, give your dreams a shot. Don't, don't, don't let the gatekeepers get in the way. Like find out a way to make the thing and if you don't like it, that's fine, you know.

Anya Smith:
Yeah. And same thing in your head, like to your point, like we can all struggle and have our self doubts and feel like we're going to puke sometimes and still do it. And it'll get a little bit easier. And you find that inspiration along the way. Sometimes the things that like really make it feel worthwhile. But Joy, where should people find you by the way? Like I know you have your website, but you're also on LinkedIn or that LinkedIn, Instagram. Where are you at?

Joey Clift:
Oh yeah for sure. So yeah you can check out my Comedy Central Digital series at gonenative.tv and then you can follow me on Twitter slash X, bluesky and TikTok at joeytainment and then Instagram and threads at joeyclift with like five or six I's. The reason for that is a 12

Anya Smith:
Yeah.

Joey Clift:
year old took joeyclift with one I so I just had to deal. Um, but, uh, yeah, I think that that's all of them. There's too many, too

Anya Smith:
those

Joey Clift:
many

Anya Smith:
kids.

Joey Clift:
social media accounts. Uh, follow me on some of them. It's fine.

Anya Smith:
Yeah, let us know what you think of Joey's comedy and leave kind comments on those ones. But Joey,

Joey Clift:
Yeah,

Anya Smith:
this

Joey Clift:
yeah.

Anya Smith:
was awesome. Thank you so much for your time. I'm gonna have three short bit questions and then I'll let you enjoy the rest of your creative time.

Joey Clift:
Great.

Anya Smith:
You ready? Okay,

Joey Clift:
Yep, let's do it.

Anya Smith:
first of all, success to me is.

Joey Clift:
Success to me is making enough money to pay the bills while being personally fulfilled with your work.

Anya Smith:
Second, if I could have a superpower, it would be...

Joey Clift:
If I could have a superpower it would be... So it used to be like Mr. Fantastic stretchy limb power, because I feel like that would be really useful for comedy But I think that now I'm gonna say teleportation because I really don't like commuting

Anya Smith:
Okay, that was convenience-based, very convenience-based to be fair about. Cool.

Joey Clift:
Oh yeah,

Anya Smith:
Okay.

Joey Clift:
yeah.

Anya Smith:
Last but not least, in a positive context, going off track is...

Joey Clift:
Going off track is, I would say going off track is taking a chance on yourself. And from my personal standpoint, it's like, it's important to gamble on yourself. When you're taking a chance, when you're trying something, when somebody says no, and you decide to do the thing, you know, do the artistic pursuit or whatever anyway, you're rolling the dice on yourself. And I think that like

Anya Smith:
Hmm.

Joey Clift:
whether... that works out in your favor or not in your favor, ultimately in the long run, you're never gonna lose betting on yourself.

Anya Smith:
Like I say, if the house always wins, in this case, you could be the house.

Joey Clift:
Yeah, you're the house. You're,

Anya Smith:
You're

Joey Clift:
it's you.

Anya Smith:
the house.

Joey Clift:
You're, yeah.

Anya Smith:
But Joanne, this is awesome. I appreciate you catching up. To me, it's been all really amazing to see everything you're doing, like the work that you're doing, the inspiration that you're bringing to other people so that they can gain knowledge and kind of motivate themselves to do more. So thank you for joining us, and thank you to all of our wonderful listeners for coming right off track to another adventure, and we look forward to having you join next time. Thanks again.