Why Purpose and Well-Being Are the New Metrics for Successful Leadership - Katy McFee is RightOffTrack | Anya Smith

why the heck did you make this change
I'm not gonna lie
there were some people in my life who were not
supportive they were like
have you lost making mind
so I sitting here in my EVP role in my quote
quote perfect life right
and I'm like
I am miserable
I just was not happy
and I was really
frustrated by the fact that I wasn't happy
because I was like come on
I've done it
I've done all the stuff
and so it forced me to like
really do some soul searching and think about
what do I really want my life to look like
it started to allow myself like an entertain
the idea of like
what if I worked for myself
which was terrifying
because so much of my self worth was tied up in being
an executive right
like if I'm not an executive
is anyone even gonna care about me
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enjoy this episode
going off track is taking a chance in yourself
following your poles of curiosity
it's making your own decisions
the most wonderful adventure
hey friends
I'm your host Anya Smith
and today we're tackling an essential and timely topic
addressing the gender gap in leadership opportunities
we're delving into ways women can empower themselves
to rise to any level they desire
our discussion will focus on overcoming barriers
harnessing personal strengths
and paving a path for success in any leadership role
whether it's in the boardroom or the entrepreneur field
Rufus is a powerhouse of knowledge
inspiration
a 40 under 40 winner
and a renowned international speaker
Katie Mcphee
Katie's insights are geared towards
empowering women to break through the glass ceiling
and claim their rightful place in leadership
welcome Katie
thrilled to have you here
oh thank you so much for having me
I'm excited to be here
my absolute pleasure
and you were somebody that I saw on LinkedIn
as I was starting Entrepreneur Journey
and it was just such a good role model for me
somebody who is sharing her truth
empowering other women
and I want to start off and ask like
what are the biggest barriers we are seeing for women
around this glass ceiling
yeah I mean there's
there's a few
um there's what I call sort of external barriers
and then there's internal barriers
and you know
external barriers can be things like bias right
it's harder for women to get to those
positions of leadership
um we don't have
we don't see women like us at the table
right and so we don't have the
that same mentorship that a lot of
our male counterparts do
um so those
those barriers do exist
absolutely um
and then there's our own internal barriers
and I think
partly because we don't have that representation
because perhaps of the messaging we receive
you know as we're coming up in our careers
oftentimes we struggle with confidence
we struggle with mindset
um and something that I called the perception problem
where sometimes we feel we're ready for that next step
and for whatever reason
our leadership doesn't feel the same way
and so those are some internal things that we can
really work on that can also hold us back
so it is it's a complex problem
and we kinda have to tackle it from both sides
absolutely and I looked at your website again
it was amazing
it offered so many resources
and one thing you talk about is helping
people with their executive presence
hmm what does that mean
cause I I have a hunch that what I think it means
is different from what it really means
so can you enab
like what does executive presence really take yeah
executive presence is one of those things
that so many of us
feel is like vague and elusive
like what is this thing
and really it's the way you're showing up as a leader
I would say
it's kind of like your personal brand of leadership
yeah and one thing that I do aim to do is demystify
things like executive presence or strategic leadership
so that the women I work with can more easily overcome
you know these things
so but really
at the end of the day
executive presence is just like
the traits and characteristics and behaviors
or how you're showing up as a leader
and if somebody is not in your course yet
could you divulge a little bit
what are those
anything you feel comfortable sharing
what are some of those traits
and any initial tips in the music
you know what
I am in that place where I'm ready for the next level
or I aspire to be that leader
what can I do
where I'm at now yeah
so I go through the nine seas of executive presence
I've created like a list of nine
um I would and I bucket them
just to make it a little more adjustable
I would say
if I think of one category
for someone to focus on
it would be communication style
and that means being clear
and being concise
and being credible
in the way that you communicate
and so many
women and men also
struggle with this
especially conciseness
and the challenge is that when you
when you Babylon yeah
when you ramble or when you know
when you take
a thousand words to say something that could take 100
it can create the perception
that you're not a big picture thinker
that you're not a strategic leader
and so they were to focus on one area
I would say it should be that
it should be your communication style
oh beautiful
for somebody like me
who definitely identifies that concises could be
area for improvement any tips
biggest tip would be prep
prep prep prep
so when you don't prep
and I've observed this in everywhere from the boardroom
to like wedding speeches
when you're going off the cuff
when you're trying to wing it
you tend to use a lot more verbage
than is what's really needed
if you take the time to prep
and I tell everyone
like every client
everyone I meet
pretty much I'm like
carve out strategic thinking time during the week
carve out one to two hours where you can prep
for important meetings
where you can
think about how you can be having a bigger impact
and that will have a disproportionate
impact on your results and on your career
so prepping for anything you're presenting
or even like ideas you have that
you know you wanna bring to a meeting
spending some time really thinking about
how do I wanna frame this
like how do I wanna share this
it'll it'll be so
so impactful in terms
of the way it comes off
absolutely and I know your focus
is on helping directors
people at the high leadership
will get to that next level
yet I believe all women
everybody should
really work on their executive presence
is there a point where it's too early to work on
or is it anytime
would be helpful
anytime oh my gosh
it's never too early
um part of the reason I came up with a digital course
was because there were some women
earlier in their careers
it didn't make sense for them to join my program yet
which is really geared towards
like managers
senior managers
and directors
and so I thought okay
I need something that's just
accessible to more people
which is why I created a digital course
so in my mind
if you know
leadership is something that's
that you want in your career
it's never too
early to start thinking about showing up as a leader
and you don't have to be managing people to do that
absolutely absolutely
I'm glad that this resources evolving in
one thing you mentioned
is that leadership branding
and for anybody that sees you now
you are like blowing up
you have all
the different social content
you're creating
these courses
you are on Instagram
and LinkedIn
in so many places
and I'm just
were you always
aware of the power of branding as a leader no
it's funny because when I was an executive
I did not have an online presence other than
you know the
the obligatory
like I accepted a position as an EVP or
you know um
like I was aware of creating
like a credible brand for myself
I was doing it a slightly different way right
I was doing it through building my network
and I was doing it through maybe uh
talking at events
like doing some speaker events
however I had not yet invested in my online brand
and I wish I had you know
to anybody who's coming up
I think it's such an important thing to invest in
and the key reason if you wanna become a leader
if you wanna become an executive
it builds credibility
are you really intentional
about what stuff you're putting out into the world
and you can really position yourself as an expert
and that again
it increases your credibility and people will see you
as a leader that they wanna work with absolutely
and do you have a strategy for somebody who's like
I'm already working so much
how the heck Katie
do I start actually building a brand
that's an extra thing to add to my list
yeah I'm all about systems
I'm all about systems because for me I mean
I don't have hours and hours a day to create content
it felt very daunting to me initially
and so what I did was I prewrite all of my posts
typically I have like a month out written at a time
because I get paranoid when it gets too close
I will block
block out time
I'm a big fan of deep work time and of work blocks
and so when I'm feeling creative
I'll write more than one post
I'll write a whole bunch of posts
and then have those available
and then I use a scheduling tool because again
like I'm a mom
I have three boys
I have a busy life
I have a dog
there's so many things going on
and so I can't necessarily be on
let's say LinkedIn every morning at 8:40
yeah to post
so I use a scheduling tool
so I don't have to think about it
it's done and then I'll go on and engage
but it takes the pressure off writing a post that day
I think too many people
try to do without a system and they think they had to
sit down 8:30 in the morning and bang out a post
oh my gosh my brain definitely couldn't do that
so I I would say systematize it yeah
the other thing I would do is
when I'd have good ideas for post
I'd pop a note in my phone
and so when I sit down to write content
I have ideas to write about
right so um
creating the system around it
using tools to make your life a little bit easier
all things that I highly recommend
and like I said
I didn't I didn't post
my first post
until I had 20 posts written
cause I thought hey
that's one every weekday for the next four weeks
now I'm ready to start yeah wow
and so what happened
so once you started posting
what what changed
they started building our brand for your leadership
it's so funny
because initially
I didn't plan to start posting
until I launched my business
however I had my 20 posts written
so I thought
like why not
I'll start posting
and it did a couple things
one thing it did was it really helped me to
realize what I cared about
if that makes sense yeah
when I first launched my business
truthfully yes
I wanted to work with women
and help women transition to leadership
but I also figured
I'll work with men too
I'll work with executive teams
I'll help companies with business strategy
because this was all in my wheelhouse
right I had
in a senior executive
I had done business strategy
I done sales strategy
commercial strategy however
as I started to write every day and post my ideas
I realized like
what things got me really fired up
what did I really care about
and it was obvious to me very
very early in my
in my journey as an entrepreneur
that I want it to pivot
my business to only focus on women
which a lot of people told me was a terrible idea
well intentionally exclude population
and I was like
yeah you know
because these guys are fine
like they're getting there
and the first time
because I still had men contact me to work with me
the first time I said no
it was really hard
right oh crazy
but I knew like in my heart
that this is what I was fired up about so linked
writing on LinkedIn really helped me to figure that out
and then of course
the other thing it helped me to do was spread the word
right it helped me to really expand my network
expand my reach
and so as a result
my business has really grown organically
over the last couple years
yeah it's I've been so fortunate in that way
that people have resonated with my content and then
and then clients just come find me
and once they do what
they kind of know what I'm about right so
once people come and contact me and wanna work with me
they already know that
that I'm a fit for them
because they've been reading my content
sometimes for years so yeah
it's been amazing in that way
absolutely and I've seen it open up
maybe opportunities for speaking and things like that
it builds that credibility point
it creates a foundation for your stage
you're creating your stage with what you have
you know funny say that just this last Friday
I interviewed for my first Ted X talk
and just for context
um some of you already know
this listing about I was laid off from meta May 2,023
so I started this whole podcast everything months ago
and but I was like
this is not gonna hold me back
I'm gonna go for every opportunity
even though it's new and daring
and somebody said it's too early
but I went for it and when I created my Ted X talk
I reflected on what can I offer
and so I looked at myths of entrepreneurship
I looked into a create a framework because obviously
you have to have a framework for
how to start your entrepreneur path
and although I'm still new at this
I could see that I have something to offer
but it took creating that you know
18 minutes spiel
getting concise getting clear
seeing the value add from a different perspective
like I know what I wanna offer
but when you really take that time
to your point 20 post for me
it was this position I said oh
that makes it very clear
that makes it punchy
that gives it like
that feel like this is what I'm gonna focus on and not
the million other things that I could be offering value
to so um I love that advice for others who are like
okay maybe I should just start putting out there
and reflect on what resonates yeah
because you know
writing has an amazing way of
of helping you to formulate your ideas right
and so it'll it'll help
you become a better speaker
it'll help you to think better on your feet
like I just think there's so many benefits to writing
absolutely in one post that I saw you write about um
talks about burnout
so you frequently talk about how you work
for an entrepreneur crazy hour
weekday hours
and you don't work on the weekend
unless it's something you
looks like whoa
entrepreneur goals right there
can you talk about how
how did you set out those boundaries for yourself
yeah yeah that was um
I think that was one of my first
post that went like crazy viral was the one about my
my work rules
so the reason I created these was because
when I was an executive
before I started as an entrepreneur
I did burnout right I
I went through a burnout event in my life
and I always tell people
if you haven't been through burnout
it's not something you can fix with a week in Mexico
it's no joke right
it takes months and months and sometimes like a year
I think it was a year before I
was feeling back to myself
and so going into my entrepreneurial journey
I knew already
I'm not willing to do the grind
like I am willing to work hard
I'm willing to be super efficient
and like during the hours I work
I'm gonna be heads down all in deep work
but I'm not willing to be like one of those
founders who post online about like
I didn't eat all day yesterday and I work 18 hour days
I'm like I'm not willing to do it
like I'm gonna actually create the challenge for myself
I'm gonna build a successful business
with balance in my life
where I can go hiking on Fridays and I can you know
spend the morning with my kids
and I can do my routine and all of that stuff so yeah
it was my own burnout event honestly
that I'm like
I'm never going back there
I'm never gonna do it to myself again
and I never did
and truthfully
like when you're in the grind
and you're working all the time and you know
you wake up
the first thing you do is check back and check email
and you know
it's like coffee to wake you up
and whine to help you go to sleep
when you're in that life
it's hard to picture another way of living
yeah but now that I'm on the other side of it
I would never go back
I am like in love with my life
I'm in love with like how I get to spend every day
and I love working on my business but yeah
my business is designed around my life
and not the opposite
uh amen to that
and that's also one thing that really resonates me is
I'm also a mom with three boys uh 1
4 and I'm a stepmom
to her 11 year old
so like haha
and I love the idea that we are
we are setting healthy boundaries for ourselves
and can you share
besides the mindset
besides say like
I know what that looks like
I'm not going there
were there other things that you implemented
or regular implement your systems
to help you maintain those boundaries
absolutely I'm all about the systems by the way
I don't like to rely on my brain for anything so
I'm big on work blocks
like everything is in my calendar
and I color code my calendar
so I know like clients
I know strategy time
I know like everything that I'm working on
speaking engagements
everything is color coded in my calendar
so I can look at it at a glance
and make sure it makes sense
but I do my deep work blocks
my phone is on focus all day long
and my friends and my partner
find this a little annoying
cause they're like
I texted you and you know
you don't get back
you don't pick up your phone
but it's because when I'm working
I am like all in right
I think this is really important because you know
I remember when I was a leader
I would look around
at some of the people that worked for me
they never seem to have enough time in the day
but every time I looked at them
they're on their phone on social media
and it's not their fault right
like it's so addictive
and it's very easy to get sucked into that
but these add up right
there's the switching costs
and I think it's like what is it
like 22 minutes or something it takes to come back huge
huge long time
and so I've just cut that out right
like I'm super efficient when I work
like I said
I time blocks
I'm working on one thing at a time
and I got like my deep work time
and then my more tactical like email checkie type time
um but my phone's on focus all day
so when I am working
I'm not distracted um
I also go for a walk and eat a proper lunch every day
so when I come back after lunch
I'm like reset
I'm good to go
my brains firing again
and so I'm just very systematic in that way
like very routine
very systematic
and that's really
allowed me to maintain those boundaries
because when I finish work at the end of the day
I've actually gotten a lot done
I don't need to work more
you know and in that particular day
um I also like
I set hard rules for myself
so I don't take clients
for example
it on the Eve
in the evenings
a lot of coaches coach in the evenings
I don't I don't clients on Fridays or Mondays
and I obviously not on the weekends as well
and that's I'm in the minority
right or a lot of people in the coaching space
um but again
for me hard rules work
because then I don't have to ask myself like
should I take one more
evening client
or should I let this person book with me on a Saturday
there's just no option to
and so that makes it really easy
it's beautiful
you get me having that system
I actually I love systems
so to me is like Tok Systems made
I love it um
and I remember this thing
I reached out to you months ago
and you told me
you responded a
which is amazing
you said Anya
I am prioritizing this right now
and you like
hey actually
first is me
show me the number
so I was like
I love that
this is awesome
and that also reminds me how
one thing I've cultivated is I realize
as new entrepreneur
especially somebody creating content
one thing that sucks my attention
checking the stats right
you're like social
how many people like this
you know um
and so I've recently implemented screens
and it's an app that you can set limits on how
often you check something
and that's been really helpful
and just realizing to example
that we need space
there's this misconception that we need to work harder
to get farther ahead
we need to do more
versus realizing that space gives us reflection
gives us a time to recuperate and regain our
regain our energy
so we can show a better
and actually prioritize what we need to prioritize by
giving us our reflection space
yes yeah and you know
when it comes to say
social media
I think it's just so important to like
check in with yourself and your
and your body
and I noticed that like
there's certain apps I would check
and I would like
I would feel
anxious after
and so I just decided
I'm just not gonna do that
right and so
I'm actually pretty good
I kind of detach from social media
I post there every day
and I do engage with people
in a intentional way
but I don't spend a ton of time
obsessing over my stats or obsessing over
the numbers of
this person got more likes than me
or whatever
I really do kind of detach from it
which has been so helpful for me
and it's always kind of funny to me
when I meet someone in real life
and they say oh
I love your LinkedIn post
cause like I'm like
oh like you're a real human
and you really
because in my mind
it's like out of two different worlds
like I write things and then I have my life
they're like
I keep beautiful
which for me works well as beautiful
what motivates you then
what motivates you not yeah
it's not vanity matrix
obviously you have your boundaries
you have that
but what is keeping that drive
alive then such a good question because so for me
I always like to think about what really matters
what am I actually trying to accomplish here
and with let's say for LinkedIn
I wanna have impact right
I want to help women and I wanna get clients
I'm not trying to be famous
I'm not trying to be like
followers on LinkedIn
right if I was
I'll be posting different types of content
because my contents for a specific type of person
not everyone gonna find value in it and so
I'm really intentional about reminding myself of that
and one of my
affirmations or intentions for this year
is to always be reminded of what truly matters
and so when I think what truly matters okay
I wanna help women
I wanna have impact women's lives and careers
I wanna help narrow the gender gap in senior leadership
through what I share you know
the speaking that I do
the women I help
but then I also want to have a life that I love
and I want to spend time being active in nature
and I wanna spend time with my family
and that also really matters to me
so think maintaining that perspective
really helps you to realize that like oh
this this post bombed who cares
I'll just not write again
and Katie can I ask you a provocative question yeah
how do you feel about authenticity in leadership
there's one thing that I'm really
passionate about on this topic is
being authentic and embracing your unique journey
whatever that looks like
but not setting
like not letting the social conventions
like you need to be successful and
you need to be happy in XYZ format
and I can imagine that in certain leadership levels
being authentic and being a leader can be challenging
because of the sense of like
what you should do to fit in that surrounding
how do you perceive leadership
that in these kind of settings
excuse me authenticity in these settings
yeah to me I think it is so important to be
often to be your full authentic self as a leader
because when you stop doing that
you like feel it right
you feel it in the way you're showing up
you feel it in
you know your satisfaction
your job satisfaction
how happy you are in your life
and it's been
it was an interesting journey for me
because I came up in you know
male dominative fields
which sounds like you did too right
and leadership especially was very much male dominated
and I posted about this before where I kind of like
adapted to the environment I was in
where I was like one of the dudes
I was like down like
let's go have drinks
like I'll smoke a cigar
whatever and
and this was conscious
I wasn't intentionally doing this
I just wasn't really thinking about it right
I was just fitting in and I wanted to be fun
and I realized at a certain point in my career
that I wasn't actually showing up as my full
authentic self
I was sometimes
right but right
there were certainly times that I wasn't
and once I saw that
it's like I couldn't unsee it
and after that I was like
I'm never gonna do that right
like it's up to me
one to show up as my full authentic self for me
but also for the women around me
and the women who are coming up right
I'm gonna be the person who's gonna say like
oh like maybe we don't want to like
go to a hockey game for the team event right
like the voice of like
you know the other side um
so yeah so it was kind of an interesting journey for me
because I do feel it's so important
and it's one of those things that
as I started to lean into that
and really become intentional and aware
I felt so strongly about the importance of that
but can I say I did it 100% my whole career
no I did it
and that's why
maybe that's why I feel so strongly about it now
yeah and one thing that just fucking mind
one really important topic
you talk about is negotiation
negotiating offers um
but maybe even more generally
whether you're an entrepreneur all
you're always gonna be negotiating with your clients
what tips do you have
for negotiating
and like doing it in a way that's not combative
but in the confident
like I know what I'm worth kind of way yes
you know what
I have a free
free guide um
on negotiation so I can
we can put in the show notes if you want
cause let's do it at for free
or they can get off my website
perfect on my website actually
I'm not sure
we'll put in the shovel
find it and link it
um but so I
I have a framework that I've created for negotiation
there are three elements to it
first one is do your homework right
as when you
when you lead with objective data
your argument is so much more compelling
so lean on that objective data
do your homework
whether it's a salary negotiation
or you want a promotion or whatever the thing is right
there's work that you can do
that's gonna really set you up for success
the second is um
frame it right
so be very aware of language
of how you are
making your ask
and then the third is the timing
and that's gonna differ depending on the negotiation
whenever you're coming into a new job and we say
wait till they are in love with you right
like wait till they really want you
they're unlikely to wanna lose
their ideal candidate over a
few thousand dollars um
and so that timing will
will be different depending on what
you're negotiating what the circumstances are
but just those are three things that
you can consider when you have to negotiate something
absolutely and I read that post
I think it was in a recent newsletter
you were talking about 2,024 um
and kind of setting the price
right for you
and what I thought about that
for entrepreneurs
it could also be about hey
you have a service
maybe like others
and you can research like hey
here is my price point based on objective comparison
on what this
what this range is
and what value I'm adding right
what you talked about using we language
so you say here is how we
are working towards this goal together
and here is how my service is helping you align
if you are goals
so I definitely take a lot of that carry over
so everything you see
will help you as a leader
as a female leader
no matter if you are growing um
in the corporate world
inside to go outside
like wherever you are
this is gonna be helpful um
on your journey
and I wanted to tip it
if that's okay
and talk about your journey
so you're mentioning here
you were a director
and you had this
challenge honestly
getting to the next level
can you talk about like
what did you undergo through that challenge
trying to get to that next level on your leadership
yeah so I was a director
I think for five years
almost of the day
trying to get to that next
level I was um
the only female also on my leadership team
and you know
it was one of those things where
I never had a female mentor
and I didn't have one at that point either
I did not know what I was doing wrong
like I just had too many
blind spots
and I was looking for resources to help me
understand what I needed to do to get that next level
and I I was really struggling to find those
because I was somebody who was like
very goal oriented
very career driven
and I was not afraid to do the hard work right
so I was like reading business books
I worked with an executive coach
like I did so many things
to try to get to that next level
and and finally I did
which was really years of learning right
it was years of you know
learning from a mistakes
reflecting on what had gone well
what hadn't gone well
and and really growing in my role
and the thing that I
realized eventually was
this company is never gonna make me a VP haha
so I realized that if I
if this was
important to me
if this was
an important part of my career journey
that meant something
I was gonna have to go do it somewhere else
and it was a hard decision
but I made that decision
I ended up moving to another company
I did get a VP
position um
and you know what it
it went really well
like I killed it
right so it was
it was interesting
you know in retrospect
because for
the longest time
I was doubting myself
and I'm like
maybe I'm not even cut
out for this
and then I got there
and I was like
oh this is it
now this is part of
the reason that I feel so
strongly about
teaching other women
what you can do to
to demonstrate that
you're ready
for that next level
because I myself
struggled with it so much
for a lot of years
and I didn't
have somebody
to give me that advice
um and it's interesting
because you know
then I went
and became an EVP
and then I decided
to become an
entrepreneur
so that I was starting
all over again
all right like
just not knowing
not knowing a lot
that I had to learn on this journey
so going back to that beginner's mindset
but it's all been
really fun and so worth it
absolutely you know
what reminds me of is that
often times we
when we're not succeeding
we can either
um you know
blame or we doubt ourself
and neither of
one is helpful
although they're natural
and the blame is
like oh this is
it's because of XYZ
because of this company what not
but sometimes
we have to also realize like hey
there's room
for growth for us
and then once we
get to a certain level where
hey you know
I've done my work
we should also be
discerning about
is a surrounding
working for us
so it's not always about us lacking
it's not that
there's a you know
every place is gonna be perfect for us
this is misconception
like if I'm
not doing great here
then this like oh
I'm not gonna do great anywhere
there's you know
the the fertile soil
feeds the seed
and sometimes
this oil is just
not fertile for you
in that situation
yeah and I love that
you were the
use the word discerning
because one thing
I say a lot
with my clients
is you know
be discerning
but not judgmental right
so move from that
like judgment
to discernment
where you can be honest with yourself
am I showing up as my best self
have I done
the best job I could
that's the discernment part
but leave the judgment behind
which might mean me
judging ourselves
it might mean judging others
it might be
judging circumstances
into your point
like it's not
it's not helpful to do that
absolutely and now
the exciting part
though part of
I'm really looking
forward to is
here you are in EVP
like at the
top of your game
and you do something absolutely crazy
you you pivot
to an unknown
territory yeah
why the heck
did you make this change
I know I know
and some I'm
not gonna lie
there were some
people in my life
who were not 100% supportive
they were like
have you lost
freaking mind
so I mean I mentioned you that I was burnt out
so that was a
that was a contributing
it wasn't the whole thing
but a big element of that burnout
was that I was no longer feeling aligned
and as as some of us know now you know
Bruno isn't just about working long hours
it's about alignment with what you're doing
and you know
I had earlier in my career
I worked in biotech
I worked in a space where like
we were literally saving people's lives
the technologies we were bringing to market
we were advancing science
we're doing amazing things
and I felt so attached to the mission
and then I started to like really be focused on
my external title and getting to the VP suite and like
all of that stuff
and that was more of my focus right
and so I took some opportunities that
I don't regret in retrospect at all um
but I was moving further and further away from like
what I was really aligned with
and what I was really passionate about
and so I sitting here in my EVP role
in my you know
my quote quote
perfect life right
I bought this house and it was beautiful and a baby
and you know
my partner and I had this great big fancy job
and I'm like
I am miserable
like I just thought like
I just was not happy
and I was really
you know frustrated by the fact that I wasn't happy
because I was like come on
I've done it
I've done all the stuff
and so it forced me to like
really do some soul searching and think about
what do I really want my life to look like
like if I could like wave a magic wand and
and create my perfect life
what would it really look like
and I I started to allow myself like an entertain
the idea of like
what if I worked for myself
which was terrifying
because so much of my self worth was tied up in being
uh an executive right
like I was like
if I'm not an executive
is anyone even gonna care about me
like what's the point
what's the point of me
and so in that
I had to get over some stuff
there right
and just be like
you know what
I won't be an executive but like
there's other things that I can do that will matter
I can help people and you know
that kind of thing um
but it was a really scary decision
I'm not gonna lie
it was really scary
it took me a little bit of time to like
work through that
but a big part of what
created the change that like actually allowed me
to take action and pivot
was the visualization
right was me saying okay
I'm gonna entertain this
I'm gonna just allow myself to be like
what would my perfect day look like
if if I there was no constraints
if I was doing whatever I wanted to do
and the truth is
that day looked like
working for myself and having space
more space in my life and
more time with friends
and more focus on health and that kind of thing so
and here you are
here it happened
here I am for anybody who
is maybe reaching that point where in their soul
they're feeling some lack
do you have any advice about how to reflect on like
how to get over there
and take the next step in the right direction
yeah I did a few things
so one thing I did was I looked at where I was
and I looked at what I was doing
and I wrote down
everything I did as part of my job
and I put in two columns
one was energizes me
and one was drains my energy
and you can do this for any part of your life right
I was doing it for my job
but you can think about your life
I do this at the end of the year
as part of my annual reflection
what things drain my energy
when things gave me energy
and if that exercises eye open
because the drains my energy
and was really long
so not that was one dead
and like I said
the second one was really the visualization of like
what just the biggest
boldest vision of my life look like
like every area right
so health wealth
relationships career
think about all these areas of your life
what does the biggest
boldest vision of your life look like
and then like
where are you today
and what is that gap
and oftentimes
like we know what we want right
like oftentimes we know in the back of our minds
like we've been shoving it down right
we've been ignoring the whispers for years
but typically we know in our heart what we really want
and so it's more just giving yourself permission
to like write it down or say it out loud and
and actually
dream a little
and and think about like
okay could I
put together a plan to actually make this happen
that's beautiful again
you have the strategies that's clearly has
so I love this advice for where you are having us
this reflection and honoring that intuition we we
we forget about along the among the hustle and bustle
we forget about the intuition
yet there is inner wisdom
there's inner guidance that we often shove down
but it's there waiting for you to give it space
and as you're helping these leaders grow
into their you know
perceived you know
title and whatnot
how do you help them keep that alignment
they said is so important
yeah I mean
we talk about it a lot
right even even we're talking about a situation
like how to manage a certain situation
I always bring it back to like
does this feel authentic to you right
so we talked about authenticity
I work with all of my clients
both in the group and one on one
with a life vision tool
because I think it is so
game changing and pivotal to
to go through that exercise
so all of my clients have an opportunity to do that
um and then we just bring it back right
like the light vision tool also comes up
like you come up with your vision
and then you come up with your big milestone goals
and your next best steps
and so there are things to do
you know right away to keep you on track
um but when they're stuck in a decision
I'll often say like
how does this align with your life vision
they'll be like oh
oh that's the opposite okay
so again my clients know
we all have inner wisdom right
you just having someone there to remind you or to
hold space for you while you remind yourself
can be really powerful
absolutely I love that that
that powerful question
like how does this align to your life vision
it's it it cuts all the
all the extent
all the non essential like
oh okay haha
get to the core from there
um I must you to be both mentioned
we're moms and we have three boys
which is incredible undertaking on its own
how has this leadership journey and the
entrepreneur journey shaped you as a mom
and influence your kids
yeah you know what
it's really cool
I mean my kids see me as a successful career person
it's funny because for one of my kids for
he's my eldest is 13
and for a school thing
you had to Google their parents and he's like mom
you're all over the internet wow
that's so cool
I know I know
some stuff like my kids with their mom right but
but I haven't brained in them like their whole life
they've seen that like I traveled for work
and I do things I care about and I'm passionate
and I think that's really good for them
for a couple reasons one
our home is very um
balance in the sense that like
my partner preps dinner lots of nights
and he puts our toddler to bed more often than I do
and like you know
we we have a really healthy balance that I
I love that my kids get to observe
because I didn't really see that as much growing up
right my mom was the primary
you know caregiver and my
my dad was a primary breadwinner and uh
and so I didn't necessarily have that
example in my own life
and so I love that my boys are going to see that
and I love it
cause they're boys
because I think that in terms of the next generation
yes we need to empower our little girls yes
we need to teach them to be bold
but we also need to teach boys
to lift women up and teach boys that women are equal
and all of that kind of stuff and so
um I feel that my kids are getting to
to observe that
and I mean hey
I like to talk about what I do
and so when it
whatever given the chance
I'm talking to them about it and why it matters
they're still young
but I'm like
I'm sitting those seeds with them right
why it matters
why girls can do everything that boys can do
absolutely I have three boys
and I honestly
was a little bit sad that we didn't have a girl
you know there's always that
like something different
and I'm so grateful that they're amazing
and it sees us responsibility
that we get to
shape these men
who can see strong women and honor that independence
and look for that in their partner
and see that that's normal
and I'm curious
for any parent
mom that feels this doubt and feels like it's selfish
for them to go after the
go after their title
go after their entrepreneur
what advice would you give them
yeah it's so funny cause I
I used to carry a bit of guilt
I'm not gonna lie
when because especially in the corporate world
I was really working towards this goal
I traveled a lot
I worked a lot
and I carried some guilt like
did I miss too much
of their childhood
I also my two older boys are from a previous marriage
but I also got divorced
and so I carried some guilt about that
and I remember asking them
it must have been like last summer
because they were
they weren't like old enough
they were like
maybe right now
they're 10 and 13
it might have been this year
might have been last year
and I said I was driving them somewhere
and I'm like guys
do you think I missed too much of your childhood
oh oh what are you talking about mom oh
I don't think you missed any of that like
like we did this trip
we've done that
we've done this
like to them
they never even noticed
and so that was like
hugely eye opening to me
well I was wearing around all of this guilt
my kids had no idea right
they're like
we don't remember
movie night
like they didn't know if I was working or what so yeah
my advice would be
give yourself some Grace right
give yourself some Grace
because our life doesn't end when we have kids
we need our own goals
we need our own dreams
and I think that we can be that
example like
our kids can
see us working on things that we care about
they can see us
living out our passion
and there's so much benefit in that
so as so long as your
you know that balance exists
I still feel like
I still get quality time with my kids
um but I think that like
being easy on ourselves is
is the path
is a good idea
and I saw actually
I read this years ago
so I'm probably gonna butcher it
but it was something like
working moms today
spend more time daily with their kids
than stay at home moms did in the seventies
well and it's because
we are so focused
we want that quality time with them
we want it we want that interaction
and so think about
how much pressure we're putting on ourselves
as full time working moms
when you know
when we were just
decades ago
when we're just home with our kids
we were on the phone with our friends
or we're watching our operas
or whatever
and we weren't feeling bad about it
so I think that some of this guilt is
is new and it's
it's in line with the fact that we work more
but I think
I think when we just look at
how it's impacting our kids
they're okay
that's beautiful
my coach and I talked about it
and I was expressing how I feel
guilty sometimes that I'm working
and she was saying well
how would you show up differently
so say if you
either you're busy
you know and you're showing up
when you are distracted
and what not
like how are you showing up
for your children
when you show up
but you're not fully present
or you feel like
not quite fulfilled
or you feel stressed
or resentful sometimes
I honestly felt
without fault by kids
and I didn't realize it
because I was thinking well
I can't do XYZ
because I'm a
mom of a toddler for child
and I realize
like that's BS
that's all in my head
and when I'm going for it
yes I have times when I'm working
but when I'm showing up
I'm not resentful
I am checking in myself like that
they're not holding me back
and when I'm there
I am fully present
so that's what helped me
is that realizing hey
I can either be
always with them right
but not feel fulfilled
and show up in a certain way
or I honor my growth
and when I am there
I'm showing up as like
my full self
happy energized
like living my fullest
so I think that's a beauty too
is like realizing
how do you show up
taking each path
I love that so much
cause I've said so many times
like I I would
not be a good mom
if I was a stay
at home mom
like I just
I need my creative outlets
I need to I need
this stuff really fulfills me
and so instead of feeling guilty about that
I'm going to have my career
and when I'm with my kids
I'm just gonna be
all in with my kids right
I'm gonna be fully present with them
and I I hear
you so much
because the times that I felt
frustrated with my
kids is because I'm
trying to do something else
and when I was an executive
I was a very disrupt executive
I'd be like
on my phone
trying to approve things while
while I'm trying to
parent my kids
or you know
whatever and
that's what I would
get frustrated with them
or I'd lose my patience
and I realized like
that's not on them
that's on me right
like it's up to me to say
I'm gonna take this time and work
and then when I'm present with the kids
I'm just gonna be present with them
so I made that
when I first launched my business
I made that an intention
I'm going to be present
I call it an
a lying choice
it was a lying
choice beautiful
I'm gonna be present
with if I'm with my clients
I'm with my clients
if I'm with my kids
and with my kids
and with my partner
with my partner
but I'm going to be somebody
who's present in my life
and it was a
decision I made
and woof it was
it's been so game changing for like
how I show up
in the world
uh beautiful
here we are
I'm so I'm so
genuinely excited about this
conversation
because it's challenging stereotypes
in so many ways
of what it means to be an
entrepreneur
of how you can be a leader
as a as a woman
and how you
can be a mom
and an entrepreneur
and doing it without burnout
without quote
unquote sacrifice
without like
ruining your mom
I don't know
perception of
who you are as a mom
whatever that means
I just love that
and everybody listening
even if you're not a mom
if you're a dad
if you're a single
person like
I just want
you to hear that
you can have that balance
you can have those systems
you can have those boundaries
and align them with
your life vision
and create that reflection space and
slow down in a
very powerful way
um so that you
are serving
yourself in a very um
in the best
way possible
let's say yeah
yeah that's beautiful
yeah that's like
we think we have to choose
but I'm the
one that's like
you don't have to choose
I really don't feel
that you do
I think that
that's a limitation we
put on ourselves
or it's like
career or family
or passions
or whatever
if you're really intentional about
the way you design
your life and I mean
I don't watch a lot of TV
okay so neither
and all the other stuff
something's gotta give
but if you're
really intentional
with the way
you design your life
you can have that
I'm gonna call it balance
but I mean it's work
life blend it's
it's balance
whatever you wanna call it
but to me it's designing
your life in an intentional
way beautiful
yeah we are not
just we're not
we're not in
for the ride
like we have agency
in our life
and we can decide
how we show up
and what we wanna live
and Katie this has been amazing
you just said that
you had exercise
reflexes on
what energizing
what doesn't
what is energizing
you in 2,024
what goals are
you setting
for yourself
and what can you look
forward to as
your audience
in this year
ah great question
one of my intentions
for this year is
doing more of what I love in my business
so that's going to be
probably more speaking
hopefully more in person
speaking um
some more podcast
podcasts are fun too
and more writing
I really love writing
I'm thinking about
what is next
in my writing journey
and like coming up with some plans there
but it's still
really early
but this year
compared to
previous years
of my business
I am gonna be doing more
of that kind of
creative work of writing
and speaking
and really leaning into that
cause I realized it
really energizes me
I love it and I
was kind of
doing it as
like a like
a side you know
a side thing
in my business
and I realize
I wanted to be more
friends center
so that's what's
coming for 2024
um and then
more of what I've been doing as well
like you know
I post on LinkedIn
every single
day I actually
I love that platform
I get to share
it's a little longer
form than some other platforms right
yeah share some
some quality content
um so I'll be doing that
and I launched a LinkedIn
newsletter as well
recently so yeah
there's lots of
a free content
that people
can find from me
and what's in
the newsletter
so I it's typically gonna be
biweekly I did it
monthly for the
month of January
because I had a theme
but it's everything
right like I
I talk about
you know leveling up
getting to leadership
thriving as a leader
but also thriving in
your life so
entrepreneurs could
get something
out of it too
um I talk about
creating that balance
I talk about
not having to choose
and not burning out and so
and sometimes
I even talk about like
my daily routine
and health and that
kind of stuff
so kind of all
all of the elements of success
I would say
go into my newsletter
it's called
a seat of the table
is that right
yeah so the LinkedIn
version is called
the seat of the table
you can also
get it right to your
email inbox
yeah not everyone wants
to get it to their
LinkedIn inbox
um so they can
also sign up
on my website
and they can just
get it right
to their regular
email inbox
every 2 weeks
yeah um yeah
so either one of those
and the one of my um
I think it's called
Monthly Insights
even though it's
now biweekly
I gotta change the name
it's been called a
year and a half
and it's been a biweekly newsletter for a year haha
Katie you've been amazing here
right after we wrap up with three rapid fire questions
so whenever you're ready
let me know
let's do it see
who has been your biggest role model in your journey
so I would say I haven't had a single role model
in my journey
um there are some women that I really look up to right
like years ago I read Lean In by Cheryl Sandberg
I was really inspired by that
somebody who I love
love is Rushma so Johnny
everything she posts and talks about in terms of like
helping women
I just bought like all of her books
yeah and so I have
there's a lot of people that I
that I follow
unless I really like um
so he'll bloom
even though he's a dude
yeah I just love content
I really like Ryan Holiday
so like there's all those types of people
I follow their content a lot
and I'm really inspired by it but yeah
I haven't had one single role model
I kind of draw my
inspiration from a lot of different people
that's beautiful
I love that okay
what's a common myth about women
and leadership that you like to debunk
I would say that women and leadership are like hard
or I want to say the B word right
but like yeah yeah
watch one this
yeah I I do think that there is um
there is a feeling that like
a lot of women in leadership don't wanna help
other women
and sometimes that through people's personal experience
maybe there was like a whoop
you know they had a female boss that
that didn't support them
um but I do think that there's a little
bit of a myth there that like
the women that actually make it to the top are these
like hard asses who
who you know
don't wanna lift up the women around them
and I don't actually find the true
99% of the time
I find most of the women
that I meet in leadership are like amazing
talented you know
powerhouse souls that really want to lift up
the women around them as well
so powerful
I am so glad we asked that question
you share that
so everybody take that to heart
challenge dismissed
and last but not least
in the positive sense
going off track is
going off track is carving your own path
to me right
it's like off track
could just mean off the beaten path
and it's finding what's right for you
and just going for it
beautiful kitty
you are incredible
thank you so much for time
thank you for inspiring us to have boundaries
to challenge burnout
to challenge myths about leadership
and women in leadership
and for also giving us all these strategies and tips
and advice daily on LinkedIn
other places
I'm just so grateful for this interview
and everybody listening
like reflect on what is your life journey
what is your life mission
what are your priorities and boundaries
and let's make 2,024 the most amazing year yet
and as always
let's take over the role together
right off track
until next time
take care he
thank you so much thank you